Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Progressive Rock

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Archives August 25, 2009 – February 7, 2011 Why the "requisite" Christgau review? I first noticed this in the article on "Tales for Topographic Oceans," but I think it applies to progressive rock album articles more generally. Why is there a seemingly requisite Robert Christgau review? As his WP article notes, he was no fan of progressive, so his reviews are virtually violations of NPOV. I would say that the only reason they're in the infoboxes is that they are available online, rather than because they have any special insight into progressive rock. The fact that he'd comment on every kind of album doesn't mean that his tastes were in any way catholic. I would suggest simply dumping them from the article infoboxes in this Project. Academic38 (talk) 08:26, 20 March 2011 (UTC) I read what he had to say about Tales from Topographic Oceans and other Yes albums; he classifies them under B's and C's on the ABCDF scale. They seemed awfully negative to have such ratings, save for some of the albums he rated B- or higher, especially that of The Yes Album, which he rated B. If it is true that he is not a progressive rock fan by default, then it is not necessary to have his reviews on progressive rock pages or for his reviews to apply to the WikiProject. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 19:46, 20 March 2011 (UTC) You seem to be misappropriating WP:NPOV. That Robert Christgau doesn't like many prog albums is irrelevant. He counts as a reliable source. NPOV states that we should try to adequately represent all viewpoints. Discarding the ones we think of as "not catholic" or "extreme" is itself a violation of NPOV. Una LagunaTalk 18:51, 21 March 2011 (UTC) Oh, I get where you're coming from there. Just because he doesn't like progressive rock by default does not mean he dislikes all progressive rock. A crackdown removal would not be necessary, then. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 00:26, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Reliable sources is a guideline for sources about facts or opinions about facts, not about things that are purely matters of taste. The word "music" does not appear anywhere in the guideline for a reason. There is no sense in which opinion about music can be extreme in the way a fringe conspiracy theory would be. What matters with reviews is whether they are useful for people who might be interested in the album. I contend that Christgau's reviews are not useful to someone who would be interested in progressive rock. They would be unlikely to prefer an album because it was closer to another genre (Christgau's best grade for a King Crimson album was based on its being more like jazz). His reviews are not useful information; they are being privileged simply because they are available on the web. Very few reviews from the 1970s are available on the web, and that's when much of this music was released. If his views were useful in telling us that "Tales" was a better album than "Close to the Edge," that would be one thing, but given his bias, his views are not useful. Academic38 (talk) 15:34, 22 March 2011 (UTC) That is a good point. Considering his bias against progressive rock, he likely is not the "go-to guy" for the genre. As I said in my first post on this thread, his reviews are not necessary to apply to this WikiProject because of this. So, what about the reviews that are already put there? If you deem it necessary, you can forget about the last sentence in my second post. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 23:48, 22 March 2011 (UTC) ...which again boils down to "we shouldn't include his reviews for certain albums because he doesn't like certain albums". This selectivity is a POV issue - we're starting to go around in circles. If the issue was with the quality of Christgau's reviews, full stop, then that may be a case worth considering, but considering you're cherry-picking reviews of his to ignore, that's not the case. Una LagunaTalk 23:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC) No, I am definitely not arguing that we should cherry pick his reviews. I think we should get rid of all of them because he has nothing useful to say about the genre. So, in your words, my argument is about the quality of his reviews, full stop, of progressive rock albums. Academic38 (talk) 16:16, 23 March 2011 (UTC) In my view, we shouldn't include any specific reviewers on every album. Each album should be examined on a case by case basis, but overall keep in mind that the infobox review section should include one positive, one neutral, and one negative review in order to satisfy WP:NPOV. Obviously some albums are going to have universally positive or negative review, and so we should seek to balance out the critical reception as best we can. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 00:50, 21 April 2011 (UTC) Completely agree with Academic38; strongly differ with Una Laguna. Robert Christgau is an active enemy of progrock — which is something that a freelance critic has every right to be (there are many horror stories about Christgau's prog reviews: he thought his amp had died when he put on Soft Machine Seven, he directly compares Henry Cow to American jazz, etc. etc. etc.). If you're looking for a WP:Notable source, use AllMusic. Not that the reviews are necessarily all that good all the time (some of them are but many are not; I've written them countless times on genre bias and incorrect factual information). The virtue of the site is that it's extremely comprehensive and as a commercial site, not prone to link rot. As for Floydian's point, I don't think that would be a tenable common practice. Multiple reviews more often than not reveal a narrow range of consensus; it's the exception to provoke love 'em / hate 'em reactions a la Captain Beefheart or Cardiacs. I agree with Backtable that we don't necessarily need to purge Christgau's reviews, but if there are pages with only a Christgau review, I'd strongly suggest adding the AllMusic review. That would also serve Floydian's concern for "balance." Let me address a final point to Una Laguna. Look, let's be honest with ourselves. Every person on this project's signup sheet has identified themselves as a fan of progrock. We're not, you know fans of every type of music with an aversion to having biasd musical tastes who decided to help out the Progrock project strictly because of our undying love for Wikipedia. We're here to help this music get better exposure primarily for the sake of people who may like the music because progrock has been a misunderstood, minority style even during the brief cultural moment when it was popular. Robert Christgau is a self-identified "rockist" — which is an essentialist ideology about what people like him believe rock music should and should not be. Christgau ranks Yes albums with C's because he's comparing them in his head to The Rolling Stones. Which is as absurd as getting a classical reviewer to share his/her opinions on the latest Madonna release. Understand that I'm no advocate of adding fancruft, pushing POV or editing confrontations with the mainstream to make the band or album in question "look good." My contribution is going to try to add (and hopefully source) some balanced and objective musical analysis to prog on the obscure end of the spectrum: RIO, Zeuhl and avant-prog. I just think we don't need to go out of our way to confirm a 20-year-old mainstream consensus that prog is somehow not part of what NYTimes critic Ann Powers called "rock's canon" at the turn of the millenium. Prog is coming back; even teenage garage bands are obsessed with odd time signatures these days (cf. the math rock and djent movements). Chrisgau's views are out of date. Snardbafulator (talk) 19:41, 15 July 2011 (UTC) Several points here. First of all, you're all talking as though Wikipedia is a buyer's guide. It's not; it's an encyclopedia. So whether or not Robert Christgau's reviews are "useful" is irrelevant. All that matters is that they are notable. Our job is to document an album's historical reception, not help music lovers make purchasing decisions. Second, you're barking up the wrong tree anyway. Your theory that Christgau hates progressive rock is based solely on reading way too much into some of his comments, and the observation that 95% of his reviews of prog rock albums are negative. The latter is meaningless, because 95% of all of Christgau's reviews are negative. He doesn't hate progressive rock any more than he hates music in general. Meanwhile, you have plenty of reviewers on Allmusic who essentially write "This album is progressive rock; therefore it stinks" and even make snide comments such as "The spirit of traditional progressive rock experimentation is alive on this album; five of the seven songs exceed six minutes."(actual example from a real Allmusic review!) Singling out Christgau makes no sense. Third, and most importantly, if you are indeed "here to help this music get better exposure" as Snardbafulator says, then you really should excuse yourself from editing music-related articles, if not Wikipedia entirely, because this is what is known as conflict of interest. Intentionally introducing bias only damages Wikipedia's content, not to mention makes progressive rock look far worse than reviewers like Christgau could ever hope to make it look.--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:49, 31 December 2011 (UTC) Well put. Essentially this is a long way of saying Verifiability, not truth... We all know the truth is that progressive rock is awesome, but unfortunately we have to verify it from people that are more important and notable than us. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 15:35, 31 December 2011 (UTC) Genre infobox vandalism Just to say that there's an IP switching around genres in infoboxes for no given reason. All of their edits here [1] may need to be reverted. Delusion23 (talk) 01:18, 22 March 2011 (UTC) It's hard to tell what they've added and what is already vandalized. From the looks of it, most Weezer albums are IP troll-holes. They need some love and dedication. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 01:44, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Bah! I hate and loathe the type of editing that consists of changing genres for no reason! Thank you much for the warning to others about the issue. If this person keeps up this shady activity, you can report it to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents or Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Genre warring is one of the most bottom feeding practices of the music scene. Also, I have another one to share. There has been an IP-hopping person who pervasively changes genres, even after being told not to do so. The IP name almost always starts with 90.21#.###.###. The 1 is there most the time, but not all the time. I haven't seen editing characteristic of this in a while, and I'm not sure if (s)he persists, but if it happens anywhere, then you can report it to the two above links and possibly tell me, because I could be able to help with relevant information. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 01:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC) By the way, this number 90 person I'm talking about has his/her most recent activity with this edit on February 2, 2011. I haven't seen activity from this person since that edit, I believe, but that doesn't mean this person isn't active. I've observed long spans of little activity from this person before, so that doesn't mean this person is done for good. That person has been doing it for over two years. As for the originally posted genre warrior, (s)he's gone under another IP and done similar activity. That is pretty unfortunate, but a fellow user reverted a lot of 98's stuff. That is definitely reminiscent to the practice of number 90, by the way, especially if the person keeps IP hopping. I, as well as others, just hope that the IP does not keep this non-negotiating serial genre changing up. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 01:18, 23 March 2011 (UTC) FWIW, I did some minor revisions on Allan Holdsworth's genres in the body of the article. I indicated specifically where he plays jazz-rock fusion (a specific genre started by jazz musicians), British jazz-rock (started by rock musicians) and progressive rock. There are multiple reliable sources that identify his music as all three; I just sorted it out. Anybody's welcome to quibble and reinsert the common (but somewhat empty) generic term "jazz fusion" if they like, but I think my reasoning is solid (and duly posted on the AH Talk page). The last thing I'd ever do is tweak a genre anonymously or against consensus. Sheesh. Snardbafulator (talk) 20:00, 15 July 2011 (UTC) Decline of prog rock also correlates with rise of jazz rock I'm reviving this from the archives, since I just wrote a ton on this very subject on the Allan Holdsworth talk page. Obviously I'm not intending this for inclusion in Wikipedia as it would qualify as original research (until such time as it becomes sourced), but it does speak to the genre discussion on this page. Snardbafulator (talk) 05:14, 16 July 2011 (UTC) Or it seemed that way at the time in the 1970s - in addition to the rise of punk. When John McLaughlin and Mahavishnu Orchestra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McLaughlin_(musician), Chick Chorea and Return to Forever etc took off (all ex Miles Davis sidemen) this new virtuoso genre seemed to render prog rock clunky and irrelevant, though in hind site this was a misguided view, probably because at the time instrumental virtuosity seemed to be so much of what prog rock was about although (again with the benefit of hind site) it was not the main point of prog rock at all. McLaughlin and Chorea's bands were all such dazzling technicians that most of the prog rockers were not in their league technically (in terms of say speed), with the notable exception of Bill Bruford (a brilliant drummer by any standard), Zappa and company, maybe Soft Machine and possibly Keith Emerson. Clearly Mahavishnu and Return to Forever owed much to prog rock's concept album format, marriage of influences etc. The sad thing about this move to complex jazz rock was that the 70s jazz fusion players, first and foremost and despite the myriad influences, were identifiably jazz musicians on loud electric instruments, whereas prog rock was indisputably rock music. This is all opinion sorry - I don't have a ref. but I'm sure one exists somewhere or perhaps I'll write it, I just wanted to put this thought here for when an appropriate ref. emerges. Hope this is the right place to leave it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.166.159.4 (talk) 02:40, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Jazz-rock fusion (as distinct from the later and much more generic term "jazz fusion") is decidedly another stream of progressive rock and IMHO should be included within the scope of this project. The difference between "jazz-rock fusion" and "jazz fusion" (or, for that matter "fusion") is that the original form was most often progressive, whereas by the late 70s, "fusion" began to encompass instrumental funk (no doubt by very competent musicians) that doesn't push musical boundaries nearly to the extent of the first-generation Miles Davis alumni whose music spawned the term. The IP is correct that "jazz-rock fusion" consisted of jazz musicians who began to play rock instruments, and thus generally have a much higher level of both technique and also in many cases musical background even than those progrockers who are identified as virtuosos. Keith Emerson and Chick Corea may have a fairly comparable level of raw chops, but as a lifetime jazz musician, Corea can improvise on a much more deeply interactive level, which would make him arguably a more well-rounded musician. That said, jazz-rock fusion and progrock, as part of a broad, anti-mainstream movement that also included "trad" folk rock, were musical allies and didn't detract from each other's popularity. It's important to recall that virtuosity was only part of progrock's appeal; there are strains of progrock that aren't at all "virtuosic" as the term was understood by the endlessly soloing jazz-rock fusioneers. Genesis and post-Dark Side of the Moon Pink Floyd didn't improvise at all, for instance. Most Canterbury rock had room for improv and some of it is heavily jazz-influenced (qualifying it as jazz-rock, but not fusion), but it's also beloved precisely because it isn't obsessed with constant displays of self-important virtuosity — making it a charmingly self-deprecating alternative to the TERMINAL SERIOUSNESS of Yes, ELP, King Crimson and Rush. Creativity has many available avenues. The IP's thesis statement is incorrect; progrock and jazz-rock fusion arose at roughly the same time and rode the same economic and cultural currents. It's also much more likely that fusion had a greater influence on progrock (especially on the Canterbury jazz-rock contingent) than the reverse (fusion guys were immersed in the rather hermetic world of jazz gigging). I'd like to demonstrate the following, but it would take genuine scholarly work to conduct a broad survey of articles from the time and not just cherry picking the ones that make this point. I think it can be objectively argued that jazz-rock fusion took the first critical hits a few years before progrock became the punk rocker's favorite piñata. In the early to mid-70s, even reviewers who were generally supportive of prog began to feel that virtuosity for its own sake was becoming a dead end (I recall, among several reviews making this general point, a Creem magazine trashing Mahavishnu Orchestra in the same issue that was lovin' on ELP). By the time punk's press supporters began wailing on "wankery" in all its forms progrock and fusion were conflated — and it was the fault of those flamboyant virtuosi. It's important to recall that Sid Vicious was a huge Magma fan, Captain Sensible adores the arch-progressive keyboard trio Egg and countless punk and New Wavers were quick to sing the praises of the non-virtuosic (but oh so musically innovative) Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band. So progressive per se wasn't so much the issue. Finally, an irony somewhat galling to progrockers. Because fusion is essentially jazz, and jazz can be disassembled into funk, blues and the American popular song, it was pretty easy to de-tune the music and take the edges off without losing the music's essence as "fusion" (the descendents of jazz-rock fusion remain in the background music on The Weather Channel and on "smooth jazz" radio), guaranteeing a solid market niche all through the late 70s, 80s, 90s and beyond. Progrock, in order to survive, had to amalgamate with New Wave in various ways, and beyond the relative successes of examples of this, it's arguable that this deformed the music (neither quite prog nor quite New Wave) in a way you can't say about fusion. So while jazz-rock fusion was more about virtuosity, progrock was (and is) more about form. The pressure to innovate satisfyingly is thus heavier on the less virtuosic genre. Snardbafulator (talk) 05:14, 16 July 2011 (UTC) Deletion of Timeline of progressive rock (2010–2019) This page had been classified as unsourced and was then, I would say erroneously, deleted. It is on the other hand true, that there are more and more entries where I am not sure, whether the band and/or album listed satisfy WP:NALBUMS. Proposal: New entries are only acceptable if at least two reliable sources are cited. If not, the entry shall be removed. A review shall be made to cleanup the existing entries of all Timeline of Progressive rock pages to add the necessary citations and to remove all entries in the list failing WP:NALBUMS.Your comments are appreciated. Cdl obelix (talk) 16:32, 2 October 2011 (UTC) I'd start by filtering out the bluelinks. From what remains, first find if they're released an album in the past two years, and then see if they're reviewed by a major source (UG, DPRP, something that's not just an unedited, user submitted review), or if they have two reviews from minor sources. This should clean up most of the junk. I'd list the ones that you can only find minor sources for here at the end, so that they can be looked at case-by-case. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 16:38, 2 October 2011 (UTC) Tool's 10,000 Days album cover I would like to summon anyone coming across this thread (and preferably has experience with album cover displays) to take a look at this since I'm seeking help for a consensus here. • GunMetal Angel 07:48, 8 December 2011 (UTC) Timeline purpose Going over the task list for this project, I noticed that much of it has to do with the article Timeline for Progressive Rock. I've seen these timeline articles before and honestly, I still don't really understand their purpose. When I'm going through Wikipedia as a reader and not an editor, I'm never tempted to visit them, because the bulk of info they must present makes them both hard for a reader to absorb and difficult if not impossible for editors to bring anywhere near a reasonable comprehensiveness. Can anyone explain what function timeline articles serve? I'd like to help out with this, but obviously I can't be much use without knowing exactly why we're doing it.--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:32, 3 January 2012 (UTC) Discipline Global Mobile DYK nomination I nominated the following hook for DYK.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:46, 21 February 2012 (UTC) Did you know ... music was called "an industry founded on exploitation, oiled by deceit, riven with theft and fueled by greed" by Robert Fripp (pictured), King Crimson guitarist and founder of Discipline Global Mobile?  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:51, 21 February 2012 (UTC) Update The DGM article should run on DYK on 25 March. Its good article review has begun. Will somebody look at Smith, Sid (2001). In the court of King Crimson. Helter Skelter Publishing. ISBN 1-900924-26-9. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) and see whether Smith mentions Discipline Global Mobile, please? Thanks,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:31, 20 March 2012 (UTC) New Flower Kings album article for deletion Banks of Eden has been nominated for deletion. See the discussion and weigh in please! - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 20:32, 29 April 2012 (UTC) Discipline Global Mobile Outside eyes would be useful. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:48, 18 January 2013 (UTC) Noting prior discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Prohibited (sic) links. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:05, 18 January 2013 (UTC) Vital articles There is a discussion occuring here regarding which music articles should be deemed vital to the Wikipedia project. Your input would be appreciated. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 21:54, 19 March 2013 (UTC) Tasks: List The "tasks" section suggests creating a "GEPR list" page, but I've already created List of progressive rock bands and populated it with a lot of referenced names. Why not amend that request and ask that anybody with the time and inclination please compare the new list page with GEPR and add any names that are missing? There are also quite a few redlinked names that could use articles. Dementia13 (talk) 16:42, 17 June 2013 (UTC) Is Dutch Progressive Rock Page reliable? Hi, I am in search of references for Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Café Jacques (band). Is a Dutch Progressive Rock Page CD review regarded as a reliable secondary source? The two reviews at the source webpage are evidence that the two albums produced by Café Jacques are covered by a reliable media publisher. This is the means by which I wish to show notability (i.e. the band released two albums with a major record label). I am intending to put two inline citations after the names of the albums in the discography, if that is the right way to approach it. In other words where citations 2 & 3 are now. Thankyou. Have a great day.CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 17:40, 17 March 2014 (UTC) You could ask at the reliable sources page. I would have said that the DPRP's reviews don't seem like a reliable secondary source to me, but I could be persuaded that their news page is. Bondegezou (talk) 17:49, 17 March 2014 (UTC) This is a tough one I've faced for several years. My opinion on the matter is that the DPRP is a directory, and so it doesn't impart notability on a subject to be covered by that site. However, as a secondary source, I believe the CD reviews qualify as peer-reviewed and not self-published (as noted here, the reviewers are not users, but a set staff), which certainly imparts more significance than allmusic reviews, which are acceptable sources for non-genre facts. - Floydian τ ¢ 17:54, 17 March 2014 (UTC) Thankyou so much for your opinions, and speedy response. Actually, I asked this question at WP:RSN where it sat for a week unanswered, before trickling down the drain (into Archive 166)! I will continue the search for a reliable source. Have a great day.CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 08:55, 18 March 2014 (UTC) Creation of Cathedral (U.S. band) This is not related to doom metal; that's an English band with the same name.CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 10:52, 15 May 2014 (UTC) Hi, there was a U.S. progressive rock band, who produced only two albums Stained Glass Stories in 1978, and The Bridge in 2007. I would like to hear opinions on: Does this WikiProject want an article created on this band? Do members think that this band is notable? Is there anyone who would want to participate or be a partner in this article's creation? Any feed-back would be appreciated, so don't hold back. Have a great dayCaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 16:22, 6 May 2014 (UTC) Prog rock article - Biased? There are only a few sentences in the Reception section of progressive rock that actually mention the critical acclaim that prog received. Much of it is devoted to the criticism and subsequent backlash of prog. This looks biased. Shouldn't it be expanded to reflect both sides fairly evenly? Johnny338 (talk) 18:32, 24 May 2014 (UTC) Arena rock - Genre or not? See discussion of whether arena rock (which includes some prog bands ie. Styx) should be considered a genre here. Johnny338 (talk) 19:19, 9 June 2014 (UTC) RfC: Ayers Rock (band) Members who are interested in Ayers Rock (band), are invited to contribute to an RfC regarding the lead paragraph of that article. More details can be found at Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/Ayers_Rock_(band)#RfC. Ayers Rock were an Australian prog rock band from the '70's. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 23:45, 19 August 2014 (UTC) Pink World - Any comments? Pink World is the second article I've created, and the first music article. I'd appreciate any thoughts or comments. I have pretty much reached what I think I can do on my own with it without some kind of guidance, but I would love to somehow work it up to GA class, though I would be quite happy with getting it to a B class for now. I've just been staring at it too long I think. Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions? Thanks! Dcs002 (talk) 07:26, 27 August 2014 (UTC) Comment on the WikiProject X proposal Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC) Rush songs - categorization I noticed today that the Category:Rush (band) songs has been added to the Category:Progressive rock songs, and I think this is ill-advised. Not all Rush songs are classified in this genre, particularly songs from their debut album. I would remove the category and recategorize the pages myself, but this is going to be a fair bit of work if it goes against consensus and needs to be reverted. Thoughts? Ivanvector (talk) 17:00, 3 December 2014 (UTC) Unusual file deletion discussion A unique image file deletion discussion is currently being conducted at this page, which may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 08:44, 23 December 2014 (UTC) WikiProject X is live! Hello everyone! You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you! Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X. Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC) The Syn Could I have some help reviewing edits to The Syn? User:Digbyjohn keeps making a number of edits to the page that I don't feel are supported, but I don't want to get into a bilateral edit war. It would be good to have some additional perspectives. Bondegezou (talk) 10:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC) System of a Down genre Discussion is required to meet citations on System of a Down are strong enough to have the group be considered part of the prog rock genre. Discussion is here Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:36, 27 July 2015 (UTC) Talk:Cardiacs Can someone help determine if any genres for this band can be verified from reliable sources? --JuggaloProghead (talk) 22:47, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Two Is One (album) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Two Is One (album) to be moved to Two Is One (2003 album). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 04:59, 15 October 2015 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. band member timeline standards discussion at WikiProject Musicians I wanted everyone here to know about the current discussion happening at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musicians#Create Member Section/Timeline Standards that may put an end to all of the edit warring and inconsistency surround band member timelines. — DLManiac (talk) 06:53, 21 November 2015 (UTC) Lemmy listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Lemmy to be moved to Lemmy Kilmister. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 04:14, 29 December 2015 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Discussion regarding terminology of singles I have started a discussion regarding how Wikipedia should define singles. Please go here to discuss.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 19:03, 18 January 2016 (UTC) GA nomination for Keith Emerson Hello, this is to let any interested parties know that I nominated the article Keith Emerson for good article status. I and a couple of others have put in significant time improving the article since Keith's untimely death and I think it's ready for a GA review. Thought I would mention it here since this project has it categorized as a high-importance article. Best, TheBlinkster (talk) 17:37, 19 March 2016 (UTC) I'll take a look. I have a lot of GAN experience so I can spot out most issues that could be raised. - Floydian τ ¢ 19:32, 19 March 2016 (UTC) Neo-progressive rock listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Neo-progressive rock to be moved to Neo-progressive. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 18:29, 29 May 2016 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Skywhale 1970s Bristol UK Prog Rock band Does anyone have any reliable sources which they could contribute to the Skywhale page, and more specifically to their album page "The World At Mind's End". Both pages are currently in the draft stages, waiting for review and have wikipedia issues due to lack of reliable sources. The former band members have gone on to play with well known artists but the article needs sources from the 1970s. Does anyone have any magazine articles, reviews, tickets or festival flyers? Cjcooper (talk) 17:56, 19 June 2016 (UTC) Expanding scope to "Progressive music" Would this be a good idea? How would it be done? By redefining this project, or by creating "progressive music" as a parent?--Ilovetopaint (talk) 03:27, 1 August 2016 (UTC) One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement! Hello, Please note that Math rock, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article was scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBot talk 00:07, 3 October 2016 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team Auteur theory listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Auteur theory to be moved to Auteurism. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 16:45, 27 October 2016 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. In the Flesh (1999–2002 concert tour by Roger Waters) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for In the Flesh (1999–2002 concert tour by Roger Waters) to be moved to In the Flesh (Roger Waters). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 04:45, 1 November 2016 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Auteurism listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Auteurism to be moved to Auteurism. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 11:31, 5 November 2016 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. RFC about post-progressive I posted an RFC about the post-progressive article - see talk page. Chilton (talk) 11:29, 6 November 2016 (UTC) Ed Wynne (guitarist) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Ed Wynne (guitarist) to be moved to Ed Wynne. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 17:02, 28 December 2016 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Draft:Magic Pie (band) FYI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk#12:22:48.2C_9_April_2017_review_of_submission_by_37.201.138.83 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.201.138.83 (talk) 11:36, 12 April 2017 (UTC) Roy Harper listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Roy Harper to be moved to Roy Harper (singer). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 17:44, 19 May 2017 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Jethro Tull (band) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Jethro Tull (band) to be moved to Jethro Tull. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 07:43, 15 January 2018 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them. Portals are being redesigned. The new design features are being applied to existing portals. At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template {{Transclude lead excerpt}}. The discussion about this can be found here. Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time. Background On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals. There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject. Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals. So far, 84 editors have joined. If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive. If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page. Thank you.    — The Transhumanist   11:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC) Warnings in infoboxes Following a number of edits I saw to prog articles (e.g. Jon Anderson, Chris Squire), I've raised an issue at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music#Wording_of_warning_re:_instrument_field_in_infobox. Input would be welcomed. Thanks. Bondegezou (talk) 08:38, 30 August 2018 (UTC) The Best of the Pink Floyd / Masters of Rock listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for The Best of the Pink Floyd / Masters of Rock to be moved. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 10:30, 19 November 2018 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Proposed deletion of LaHost The article LaHost has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: Article created in 2007 and has been tagged with Template:Unreferenced since December 2010. Quick search for sources found one website showing the band existed, but I wasn't able to find anything to show how it meets WP:BAND or WP:GNG While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons. You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page. Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. -- Marchjuly (talk) 09:12, 29 December 2018 (UTC) A new newsletter directory is out! A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you. – Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC) Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd album) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd album) to be moved to Wish You Were Here. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 20:14, 14 May 2019 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. MfD nomination of Portal:Progressive rock Portal:Progressive rock, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Progressive rock and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Portal:Progressive rock during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Guilherme Burn (talk) 16:17, 25 June 2019 (UTC) Steve Howe (musician) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Steve Howe (musician) to be moved to Steve Howe. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 05:45, 29 August 2019 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Request for information on WP1.0 web tool Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables. We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC) Pitfalls listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Pitfalls to be moved to Pitfalls (album). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 05:05, 9 November 2019 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Eloy listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Eloy to be moved to Eloy (band). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 00:16, 30 November 2019 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Welcome Back, My Friends, to the Show That Never Ends ∽ Ladies and Gentlemen listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Welcome Back, My Friends, to the Show That Never Ends ∽ Ladies and Gentlemen to be moved to Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That Never Ends: Ladies and Gentlemen. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 18:31, 4 March 2020 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That Never Ends – Ladies and Gentlemen listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That Never Ends – Ladies and Gentlemen to be moved to Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That Never Ends – Ladies and Gentlemen. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 02:49, 20 March 2020 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. The Holy Triumvirate Someone started a discussion, which I saw on my watchlist, on the Rush talk page about adding their nickname The Holy Triumvirate to the article. I have been looking, but can't find whether or not its fluff or if it's something that can be added to the article. That's why I haven't commented myself. Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 05:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC) Has America been too dumbed down by mainstream radio,to understand progressive rock music? Or are Americans just not able to focus on songs longer than 5 minutes? For many years 90% of all progressive rock music came from somewhere other than the United States. Today with progressive rock finding its way to United States through progressive metal progressive rock and even some cult followings, Most Americans seem to be somewhat more familiar than they were in the eighties or even seventies. But being a rock history myself I am very aware that most all Americans cannot focus on music longer than 5 minutes because the radio tells them dictates to them what they like and don't like. Where's Americans are supposed to be free people and free thinkers but when it comes to music we are not our thoughts are dictated basically by what is played on mainstream radio. Everyone however has their bands they like that are not on mainstream media but they generally do not include progressive rock bands. My thought is Americans have been dumbed down and given a certain musical ADD About progressive rock music. A good example would be ask any American on the street to explain side one of Jethro Tulls album,Thick As A Brick Feathercat43055 (talk) 01:09, 18 April 2021 (UTC) AfD for Mirage (Camel spin-off) There's a discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mirage (British band) around the Camel spin-off, Mirage. Input welcome. Bondegezou (talk) 10:49, 12 July 2021 (UTC) AfD - Live at the House of Blues (Jethro Tull album) Nomination of Live at the House of Blues (Jethro Tull album) for deletion A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Live at the House of Blues (Jethro Tull album) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted. The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Live at the House of Blues (Jethro Tull album) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Beardo (talk) 21:07, 19 September 2021 (UTC) Signify listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Signify to be moved to Signify (album). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 11:32, 21 December 2021 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Chop Suey! (song) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Chop Suey! (song) to be moved to Chop Suey!. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 04:30, 27 September 2022 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Caravan (band) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Caravan (band) to be moved to Caravan (English band). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 19:31, 12 October 2022 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Proposed deletion of Outer Limits (band) The article Outer Limits (band) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: Zero evidence of notability found. While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons. You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page. Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 00:19, 2 April 2023 (UTC) Project-independent quality assessments Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment. No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories. However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:57, 12 April 2023 (UTC) Ling tosite Sigure listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Ling tosite Sigure to be moved to Ling Tosite Sigure. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 03:02, 19 April 2023 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Witch Hunt (Rush song) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Witch Hunt (Rush song) to be moved to Witch Hunt (song). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 00:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Rush (band) regarding end of band There is a discussion on the article's talk page regarding the band either ending in 2015 or 2018. Some opinions would be helpful to see if a full consensus can be given. The topic is Talk:Rush (band)#Lifeson confirming 2015 end. Thanks. HorrorLover555 (talk) 20:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC) Is this WikiProject still alive? It seems like there hasn’t been much activity recently. blueskiesdry… (cloudy contribs…) 00:00, 31 December 2023 (UTC) Animals (Pink Floyd album) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Animals (Pink Floyd album) to be moved to Animals (album). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 18:31, 18 January 2024 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Ange listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Ange to be moved to Ange (band). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 01:48, 28 January 2024 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject. Dave Stewart (keyboardist) listed at Requested moves A requested move discussion has been initiated for Dave Stewart (keyboardist) to be moved to Dave Stewart (musician, born 1950). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 03:33, 12 April 2024 (UTC) To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.