Talk:Temporal envelope and fine structure

Context of creation

This wikipedia page was created following the "Workshop on temporal-envelope and temporal fine-structure auditory processing" that took place at Ecole normale supérieure (Paris, France) on the 29th of December 2017. The participants were 12 researchers in psychoacoustics and neurophysiology, who worked together on this page.Lvarnet (talk) 13:58, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Renaming

Dear @Boghog:,

We quite understand why the title of this new page was found overly long. An introductory sentence was also missing at the beginning of this page.

As for the title, "Temporal fine structure" unfortunately does not give a complete description of the full content of the new page. Under its current form, this page presents both "temporal envelope" (half of the content of the web page) and "temporal fine structure" (the other half of the page) concepts . It is true that separate web pages could be generated, one for each concept (ie, one page presenting "temporale envelope (hearing)" and the other "temporal fine structure (hearing)"). However, both concepts are strongly linked and cannot be fully understood separately. Based on our teaching and research experience on this topic, we believe that both concepts should be presented simultaneously to ensure that the readers understand well what these notions refer to, and the important issues related to this "ENV/TFS" dichotomy (eg, TFS cues can be converted into ENV cues by the auditory system, and vice versa). However, if this option still appears inadequate, several alternative options may be considered. These options are listed below, with decreasing preference:

1. Temporal envelope and fine structure (hearing)
   
2. Temporal envelope and fine structure
   
3. Envelope and fine structure (hearing)
   
4. Envelope and fine structure
   
5. Temporal modulations (hearing)
   
6. Auditory modulation perception
   
7. Temporal aspects of hearing
   

As for the first sentence, we propose to change it into: Temporal envelope (ENV) and Temporal fine structure (TFS) are temporal modulations in sounds that are responsible for loudness, timbre, and pitch perception, and several aspects of spatial hearing.

Regards, --Lvarnet (talk) 14:40, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Lvarnet:. First of all, thanks to you and your colleagues for producing such high quality content. The subject matter of this article is way over my head so I clearly need to rely on your expertise. I don't have any strong feelings on the title of this article, other than the desire to simplify it. Of the alternative titles listed above, I would prefer #2. Per WP:ATDIS, disambiguation is only necessary if there are other topics that might be confused with this one. A Google search for Temporal envelope and fine structure picks up only speech and hearing articles. Hence I think the (hearing) disambiguation are unnecessary. Per MOS:LEADSENTENCE, it is important that the first sentence of an article be as simple as possible so that it can be understood by a wide audience. Based on your suggestion above, below is my attempt to simplify it further:

Temporal envelope (ENV) and temporal fine structure (TVS) are changes in the frequency and amplitude of sound perceived by humans over time. These temporal changes are responsible for loudness, timbre, and pitch perception, and several aspects of spatial hearing.

Boghog (talk) 17:23, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

@Boghog:

I think we have reached an agreement here! Thank you for your helpful advices and for helping us improving this article!

--Lvarnet (talk) 09:10, 5 February 2018 (UTC)