Talk:Davy Crockett/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Manifest Destiny

I think something along the lines of his belief in Manifest Destiny would be appropriate to add in this srticle. After all, he was involved in the Alamo and was living around in the time of which that occured. Just my thought. Mrparkers (talk) 01:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Buried at Alamo

Was David Crockett buried at the Alamo? I ask that Question 'cause I read something at findagrave that his remains are entombed within the Alamo not creamated or scatted at sea.So what's true? Entombed or scatted at sea?thanks.

Crockett's body , along with the other 180-250 combatants inside the Alamo, were taken outside the Alamo and burned. Almost a year later, on 25 February 1837, Captain Juan Sequín and his calvary company, rode into San Antonio and scooped up some of the ashes. He had a wooden coffin built and buried the ashes where he found them. A marble and concrete casket today resides inside the San Fernando Cathedral supposedly containing the mixed ashes of some of the fallen men from the Alamo.~TLincolnAnd no-one knows were he lays to day.

Something's missing...

Where's the info about all the legendary stuff he supposedly did? What about his frontier life?

The Daniel Boone article states that Boone did not wear a coon skin cap, while this article states that he does. Doesn't seem to be on topic for Davy Crockett in any event.

How about the Davey Crockett haircut! It's true!

Um...1872 to 1884 isn't exactly 24 years last time I checked...

So he just died while fighting...why does that make him any more notable than all the other soldiers? Doesn't seem so legendary to me, I expected something extraordinary.

Crockett and Bowie had already made names for themselves before arriving at the Alamo. Travis was a relative unknown at the time in Texas History. Together, all three are now legends within Texas History. Also, Crockett's death is cause for serious debate among scholars.~TLincoln

He was actually executed under orders from Santa Anna following the battle. A ruthless bastard, I find it amusing General Sam Houston allowed him to live--I sure hope he remained embarrassed over that for the rest of his life. A reputed rapist and murderer (He allowed his men to do so), I'll bet he's crying in Hell for all eternity.

Houston allowed Santa Anna to live because he knew only Santa Anna could stop the Mexican army. Houston knew there were close to 5,000 Mexican troops still in the field and the Texan military was in poor shape. Santa Anna's order for all Mexican troops to pull back to the Rio Grande was a schrewd political and military move on Houston's part.~TLincoln

You watched the movie, you cant say for certain that he was "actually executed under orders from Santa Anna" when it is all speculation. I love how the movie tries to demolish the legend that is davy crockett...hollywood always trys to defile everything that is great and American.

The movie on purpose wanted to show the human side of the main characters. Legends and actual fact often become tightly twisted together.~TLincoln

The article does need a lot of work. On a minor matter, Crockett's son served as US Congressman from Tennessee (a Whig like his dad) from 1837 to 1841, not 1843 (also the account could be taken to imply that he served from Texas, which would have been impossible since Texas was not part of the US until after the 1844 election).

== ugh == --68.193.163.234 18:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC) divya

"The Mexican commanders understood their superiority of numbers and position and offered free passage to all concerned." under Death category is in accurate. Besides being a Texan and having visited the Alamo thousand times, the wikipedia article on the battle of the Alamo contradicts this. I'm going to copy and paste from the Alamo article "Santa Anna raised a blood red flag which made his message perfectly clear. No quarter would be given for the defenders." Also for the people argueing over the number of survivors there was one solider who snuck out before the battle who didn't cross the line in the sand. Moses_Rose He fled only 2 days before the end of the siege... CComputer (talk) 01:00, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman.He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman.He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman.He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman. [cough] evil —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.163.234 (talk • contribs)

Well, yes, but then things really were different back then. Even the naturalist John James Audubon went around killing birds, etc., left and right. -- Mwanner | Talk 23:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

dont be stupid...you live in the 2000s...you are weak, davy crockett lived in a time where men were men so you will never understand hunting for survival since you have everything you need at your mcdonalds, put down the hoagie and open your eyes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.216.1.4 (talk • contribs)

But he did it for no reason whatsoever! He just left them there to rot. only vultures could maake use of them, duh! Natives, on the other hand, actually used every part of the animal. Don't even mention Mcdonalds. I am a vegetarian animal lover, but do not mistake me for a PETA official who thinks it is kinder to bake the chicken, not fry it. (they are idiots). Also, people during that time, when riding in trains, used to shoot buffalo from the windows, again leaving them to rot. Someone back me up here! (please, of course)-- 68.193.163.234 18:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC) divya

The mass shootings/killings of buffalo, via trains, occurred from the late 1860s till the 1880s and were shot by wealthy easterners who wanted to 'go west for excitment'. They were only interested in the buffalos' hides. The transcontinental railroad wasn't completed till 1869. Correct statement, wrong decade. ~TLincoln

It really wasn't for no reason-- bears killed livestock (and sometimes people). It certainly made more sense than the slaughter of the buffalo did. -- Mwanner | Talk 21:23, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

The killing of animals wasn't a matter of concern at all in the 19th century, neither was soil conservation of any kind. The people of that time felt it all was an unexhaustable supply.~TLincoln

they only kill humans if provoked- and injuring them provoked them, u idiot.everyone knows that. Okay, your vegetarian animal lover, how about you travel to the middle of Alaska and try to befriend the bears there? It's easy for you to be an animal lover when you aren't out in the woods trying to survive.

I would use them to survive. Seriously i'm not an idiot--- that much according to my friends.--Divya da animal lvr 21:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

folk hero my foot

This article says he was a folk hero, that should mean that he did something that won the hearts of all of his townspeople, but what did he do???

Crockett was a proponent of the 'common man' of the day while in office. He often championed Indian rights bills in congress.~TLincoln

Cattle Drive

It says in my book here that "In 1798, David left to work as a hired hand on a 300-mile cattle drive." Is this true?

In 1798 Jacob Siler was passing by the Crockett tavern in Tennessee and was driving a herd of cattle to Rockbridge, Virginia, about 225 northeast. David's dad, John, hired out David to Mr. Siler for the trip.~TLincoln

The Complete Idiot's Guide to The Old West by Mike Flanagan copyright ???

Accuracy dispute

The article is flagged as being the subject of an accuracy dispute. What is disputed?

According to http://www.thealamo.org/myths.html and http://www.thealamo.org/asked.html#eleven there were more than two survivors from the Siege at the Alamo.

"However, nearly twenty women and children, who experienced the twelve days of siege leading to the final assault, were spared and allowed to return to their homes. The survivors also included Joe, the slave of William B. Travis. The best known Alamo survivor, Susanna Dickinson, was sent to Gonzales by Santa Anna with a warning to the Texans that the same fate awaited them if they continued their revolt." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.229.155.127 (talk • contribs).

Removing Ancient ACCURACY template

Duplcate of note on: User talk:Ashibaka#I should bill you for the time

Hi! Poor Summary — Many of us would appreciate a comment like "Applied ACCURACY Template because...". We'd appreciate it even more if you annote the talk:Davy Crockett with a prominent section title and notes as is implied by the template: "See Talk..." For example a heading like the below would be in order:

Applying CLEAN Template 27 Apr 06

Because ...

this
that
and more importantly...

I hope you've been checking back on any such tagged articles... the rest of us shouldn't have to spend our limited wikiTime trying to trace such unthoughtful behaviour, wouldn't you agree?
In sum, you owe me for nearly a half-hours effort. My billing rate is fairly high, so I'll give you a pass this time. Do be more considerate going forward. You have a responsibility to the other volunteers here do so, wouldn't you agree?

I'm removing the Template now. If you don't like it, put it back with such documented reasons if you are too lazy or disinterested in cleaning up the article yourself. Best regards, FrankB 18:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Need a source

We need a source for the charge that Davy Crockett might have tried to flee. I will remove that sentence in 24hrs without a credible source for this; as it conflicts with the historical record and generally accepted history. --Northmeister 18:08, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Good work Brian, on sourcing. Interesting facts. --Northmeister 14:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Some Texans slipped over the walls during the battle within the mission fort. Santa Anna had placed calvary, Gen. Ramírez y Sesma, outside to patrol the Béxar-Goliad road and in case of Texan reinforcements or escape. Mexican lancers surrounded the fort. Source: Santa Anna Order, March 5, 1836 in Jenkins, ed.,Papers IV, 518-519./Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution by Stephen L. Hardin-pp 133,pp138,pp148. All accounts of Crockett's death place him within the Alamo compound.~TLincoln

Exactly, use the time stamp for your signature when editing. --Northmeister 02:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Removing material

TLincoln- What source are you using to remove the material from the lead paragraph? --Northmeister 02:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

"King of the Wild Frontier" is a 20th century, Walt Disney, commercially created label. It has no historical bearing on the article and you will not find that tag in any Texas History books. In addition, I have been researching Texas History for over 20 years and I believe in extreme accuracy when dealing with this topic. All true Texas Historians know that Crockett did not like being called Davy, but David. Also, I stand by my research in the case of David Crockett's son John W., and his time in congress. It should be reinstated into the article in my POV. Thank you. Tlincoln 02:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Regardless, he is popularly known as "King of the Wild Frontier" as it states and that should stay. We are dealing with the man and the Americana of the man as well. For example he may not have liked th e name "Davy" has Roosevelt did not like the name "Teddy" but history and popular American culture use those terms, they should stay. Keep that and add your observations about John W. if they have sources for us to check. --Northmeister 05:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I say it stays. So who wins? We could go back and fourth forever, but, it doesn't really matter. If something is removed for being so silly, what's to stop someone from putting it back only because they like it? Like the Crockett part about his funeral! That is pure nonsense. I could easily type " A parade of Mexican clowns came in and danced around the fire", and it would stay. I give up on this site trying to educate people. I am a Texas History teacher, have been to the Alamo many times and I know my facts. Historical garbage will only make my job a little harder in correcting misinformation to our students. This nation's founding fathers were correct in calling the mass of people to dumb to govern themselves. I will not attempt to correct any further historical mistakes on Wikipedia. You're free to write anything you want, I will not respond nor read any commments. Have a nice day and good luck.Tlincoln 18:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Northmeister for getting back with me, that was very nice of you. Let's work together to make this article even better and make the "King of the Wild Frontier" happy. (Tlincoln 15:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC))

Picture

Shouldnt we find a picture with coonskin cap on? Davy always wore it and its surely how he would like to be remembered. Ice Cold 18:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

It may have been popular on the Disney show, but in real life there is no evidence Crockett ever wore a coonskin hat. Nor have I ever seen any quotes from Crockett that he liked them enough to be remembered wearing one. Drsowell 20:57, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Clearly, this article neds a picture of Fess Parker. Randall Bart Talk 05:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

West Point

Anyone care to add a word or two about Crockett's opposition to the US Military Academy? Somewhere I have read that he opposed it as elitist.

Crocket's Funeral conflict

First and second (and last) paragraph on this item contradict themselves. It may be because it is not entirely well written. Whereas the second paragraph gives its statements as facts, the first one gives "unconfirmed" renditions over the same issues. But if the second one is definitive, then the first one doesn't make sense. Perhaps it has to be rephrased saying that it is "officially" believed that he was taken to... and then give the other unconfirmed rumours. Or else, I don't understand the section.--200.55.116.210 02:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)Nahuel

Anyone? --Awiseman 16:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

David and others initially survived the battle of the Alamo. Santa Anna decided to take no prisoners for reasons known only to him. The bodies of the slain men were cremated in a mass funeral pyre. There was funeral for any of the dead. Attempts and stories have circulated that Crockett's family tried to have his body returned for internment, and impossible task given the nature of events. There is no verifiable source to what became of the ashes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.34.203.161 (talk) 08:50, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

French ancestry

Somebody removed the bit about his French ancestry. There is tons of proof on the internet, such as abook by his direct descendent [1], this list of his descendents [2], and this page from the U of Wisc. about Wisconsin's French heritage. [3]. Please don't remove something and say there's no evidence if you haven't bothered to look. --Awiseman 16:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The claimed ancestory has enough credibilty that it shouldn't be removed without a reasonable challenge to the references. There is, however, a slight agreement issue with the previous statment in the article that states that he is of English and Scots-Irish descent. It seems that if he is actually of French heritage as well, the Scots-Irish statement should be amended to reflect that. Perhaps the two statements could be combined. --Uspastpresentwatch —Preceding undated comment was added at 17:45, 10 January 2009 (UTC).

This alleged "Crockett speech" should be removed...

This bit about Crockett being a "staunch opponent" is speculation based on nothing more than a book of fiction, a "dime novel" which included this alleged speech: "Not Yours To Give". It should have more than a link to website by Ron Paul as a source, since his only source is this author of Dime novels. I will be removing this entire bit in one week unless someone can come up with more than a dime novel, or Ron Paul, as a source. It's not the first time some "politician" has done this.

  This was a speech which he gave and was quoted in a book compiled by Edward S. Ellis, 'The Life of Colonel David Crockett' - I have this speech and will be glad to place in this article; by the way the dates of Congressional seat should be 1827-35 - 
     will be making these corrections/additions if ok to do so; the speech is copyrighted so I don't know whether I could do more than quote bits & pieces.

There is the case of Alexander Tytler: http://lorencollins.net/tytler.html

(A big favorite of right wing propagandists and characters like Paul and his ilk).

There is the case of David Barton's false quotes being read into the congressional record:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/founding.htm#MYTHING

(The Christianists love that.)

It's embarassing to see this kind of shoddy nonsense and propaganda being inserted into Wiki articles as factual information. It's like using a comic book as a source and citation. Ridiculous, but then so is Ron Paul. One week and it's history.

Links about Crockett and this dime novel author who never even met the man:

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/CC/fcr24.html

http://etext.virginia.edu/railton/projects/price/acrocket.htm

http://www.buriedantiques.com/19th_century_authors/edward_sylvester_ellis.htm

http://www.niulib.niu.edu/badndp/ellis_edward.html

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:V0vMAgjy_dIJ:www.bigredhair.com/steamman/index.html+Edward+Sylvester+Ellis&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

"Crockett was a staunch opponent of wasteful government spending. In his speech entitled "Not Yours to Give" [2], he was critical of his Congressional colleagues who were willing to spend taxpayer dollars to help a widow of a U.S. Navy man who had lived beyond his naval service, but would not contribute their own salary for a week to the cause. He described the spending as "unconstitutional" and the once popular proposal died in the Congress largely as a result of his speech:

“ Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him. Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

Wikkid Won 09:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I have found one Crockett speech. I'm sure there are others, but after reading this one, I am even more convinced this alleged speech is more fiction than fact. Crockett was illiterate, in the sense that he had no formal education. This exemplar of an actual speech is hardly what I would call great oratory. Compare the two. You'll see what I mean.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?hlaw:1:./temp/~ammem_d69p::

Crockett did not even learn how to write English until later in life. His book was written with the aid of a man with a formal education. If the source for any of this came from Crockett's book, I would not quibble with it. But it does not. It is from the 1884 Dime novel by Ellis.

People are more than welcome to search for this alleged speech. You will be searching through the Register of Debates.

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwrd.html

If you find it. Put it back.

• I say it should stay...

People, please sign your user signature. Here is a link to the entire speech, plus at the bottom is another link which discusses the authenticity of the quote. To lump in Ron Paul and others with David Barton is ridiculous. Ever consider that Rep. Paul is simply mistaken? That perhaps he isn't even aware a longer version exists? --Sparkhurst 19:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

After looking around a little, I noticed a few things. For one, "Until the middle eighteen eighties Ellis wrote, primarily, works of fiction. After that time, he turned to writing accounts of historical events, mostly for adults." [4] This article previously said The Life of David Crockett was written in 1884, in the time period when he transitioned to more serious works. To determine whether this is a dime novel or not, one would have to read the book. Failing that, at the very least someone could provide sourcing proving this Not Yours To Give story is fantasy. Also, since the link was changed from Ron Paul's website to the full version at Constitution.org, to include Paul's name is unnecessary. --207.69.138.134 20:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I have changed the quotes to show that the speech is almost certainly bogus. It was written in a penny novel a half a century even after he died. And it goes on to quote an entire conversation (!) with Crockett. Please, give us all a break. --Bigdavediode 21:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

The Register of Debates (which covers Davy Crockett's first two terms in Congress from 1827-1831) and the Congressional Globe (which covers his last term in Congress from 1833-1835) do not provide verbatim transcripts of speeches made on the House floor. There is no way to know therefore if the text of the speech that has been widely distributed is true to what Davy Crockett said.

However, there is a historical record that supports a similar story - the House considered a bill of relief for the family of deceased general Brown in April of 1828 and Davy Crockett is on record opposing that bill and offering personal support to the family. You can read the (very brief) summary of that in the Register of Debates here. Crockett's comments are summarized at the bottom right of the page.

[5]

From what I can tell the matter is not settled. I will be making changes shortly that removes the POV that was added a month ago. --4.239.168.91 20:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The speech quoted from the "Crockett Almanac" should be removed or else identified as a tall story. The primary contents of the Crockett Almanacs are, like those of the Farmer's Almanac, a calendar, the phases of the moon, tides, etc. What makes them "Crockett" almanacs is that they're fleshed out with comic woodcuts and slapstick stories about Davy. In other words, they're largely joke books: the modern equivalent would be books of obviously exaggerated jokes about Bill Clinton or George W. Bush. Nothing in the Crockett almanacs - beyond the tides and phases of the moon - can be taken seriously. The speech must go: Crockett never made it. PhD (talk) 13:19, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's an article listing some sources debunking "Not Yours to Give": http://radicalreference.info/NotYoursToGive -- SpareSimian (talk) 04:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Dickinson and Joe as eyewitnesses of the battle

How can Susannah Dickinson be an eyewitness to the battle. She was huddled in the back of the chapel and did not come out into the compound until after the battle was over. Dickinson has been discounted by historians as one of the least reliable "eyewitnesses" of the battle. She also claimed to have seen Travis's body on top of the chapel

Also, Joe witnessed his master's death than ran to hide in Travis quarters and did not come out until discovered by soldiers.

Is this an an effort by the author to keep his "legend " alive despite its questionable sources?

David De Crocketagne

I can find no evidence that David Crockett was born David De Crocketagne. De Crocketagne appears to have been an older family name. This information has been copied in many wikis. Any way to undo the damage?

edit in question: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Davy_Crockett&diff=12668743&oldid=12668410

--71.231.203.169 04:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I found a genealogy page that says his ancestors had that name, but it appears he didn't. I changed it --AW 15:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering about this myself. Can we be sure his ancestors were Hugenots? According to Black's Surnames of Scotland, Crockett is an old Scottish name of Celtic origin, found in Lanarkshire and Galloway, just across the water from Ireland. It is possible that some Hugenots changed their name to a similar-sounding name in countries they moved to. PatGallacher (talk) 21:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Davy Crockett's father

There's a song that claims "Davy Crockett's da came from Donemana" (Co. Tyrone, Ireland) - would this have any relevance in the article? Cheers (7+1 04:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC) )

Ugh

--68.193.163.234 18:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC)  divya

He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman.He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman.He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman.He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman. [cough] evil —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.163.234 (talk • contribs)

Well, yes, but then things really were different back then. Even the naturalist John James Audubon went around killing birds, etc., left and right. -- Mwanner | Talk 23:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

dont be stupid...you live in the 2000s...you are weak, davy crockett lived in a time where men were men so you will never understand hunting for survival since you have everything you need at your mcdonalds, put down the hoagie and open your eyes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.216.1.4 (talk • contribs)

But he did it for no reason whatsoever! He just left them there to rot. only vultures could maake use of them, duh! Natives, on the other hand, actually used every part of the animal. Don't even mention Mcdonalds. I am a vegetarian animal lover, but do not mistake me for a PETA official who thinks it is kinder to bake the chicken, not fry it. (they are idiots). Also, people during that time, when riding in trains, used to shoot buffalo from the windows, again leaving them to rot. Someone back me up here! (please, of course)-- 68.193.163.234 18:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC) divya

The mass shootings/killings of buffalo, via trains, occurred from the late 1860s till the 1880s and were shot by wealthy easterners who wanted to 'go west for excitment'. They were only interested in the buffalos' hides. The transcontinental railroad wasn't completed till 1869. Correct statement, wrong decade. ~TLincoln

It really wasn't for no reason-- bears killed livestock (and sometimes people). It certainly made more sense than the slaughter of the buffalo did. -- Mwanner | Talk 21:23, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

The killing of animals wasn't a matter of concern at all in the 19th century, neither was soil conservation of any kind. The people of that time felt it all was an unexhaustable supply.~TLincoln

they only kill humans if provoked- and injuring them provoked them, u idiot.everyone knows that.

Okay, your vegetarian animal lover, how about you travel to the middle of Alaska and try to befriend the bears there? It's easy for you to be an animal lover when you aren't out in the woods trying to survive.

I would use them to survive. Seriously i'm not an idiot--- that much according to my friends.--Divya da animal lvr 21:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Davy Crockett's 5 year old descendant kills a bear

Howdy folks, I was reading this in the news and thought this was interesting. "5-year-old descendant of Davy Crockett kills bear". I don't know if it's appropriate for the article (or where, I'd hate to see it listed as Trivia) so I figure I would let the article's regular editors decide if it is worth using or where to put it. Thanks! Agne ^Cheese/^Wine 06:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

He was a congressman

Why doesn't he have a specific bar under his name like any other congressman? Y'all even have the specific dates that he served. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chairmanriot (talk • contribs) 05:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC) Thank you, Foetusized. I was accused of 'uncited and incorrect changes to dates'. Can you imagine?!? Incorrect??? Erm ... that's a NO (and, I think, deserves an apology). Uncited? Geez, don't they teach anything in school any more? Or does one now need to cite an authority for 2 + 2 = 4?HenryLarsen (talk) 19:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Editing and Contributing

Why is the main article locked? There is false information in the article that begs to be corrected! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.34.203.161 (talk) 08:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Page move

I would suggest this page be moved to "David Crockett (politician)", and a redirect page put up at "Davy Crockett", or in fact, a separate article be written about Davy Crockett, the fictional character so beloved by Disney. The real life Crockett never referred to himself by that nickname. It is as unlikely as the 1st President of the U.S. being listed on Wikipedia under "Georgie Washington", or other notables such as "Tommy Jefferson". It simply shouldn't be done. See [6] for a good book on what the historical Crockett was like. Also see [7].139.48.25.61 (talk) 20:32, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Please see WP:COMMONNAMES:"When choosing a name for a page ask yourself: What word would the average user of the Wikipedia put into the search engine? Wikipedia is not a place to advocate a title change in order to reflect recent scholarship. The articles themselves reflect recent scholarship but the titles should represent common usage".--JayJasper (talk) 20:44, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

BTW, I've just created a redirect page for "David Crockett (politician)".--JayJasper (talk) 20:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

So how come Colonel Sanders was moved to Harland Sanders then? The logic doesn't seem to be consistently applied.139.48.25.61 (talk) 15:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

The Colonel Sanders article probably should have stayed as it was, since "Colonel" is how most people identify him. For better or for worse, the average person identifies the subject of this article as "Davy". Thus, it would be ill-advised to make a page move without first getting a consensus.--JayJasper (talk) 21:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Since redirects are possible I would say more correct page titles should be in favor. Apart from this "Davy" seems to be only occurring in special circumstances like folk tales. On a side note: The reference to "recent scholarship" in the first argument from JayJasper is not applicable here, rather the example of Bill Clinton would do. -- Tomdo08 (talk) 17:06, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Death and controversy section

The last two sentences of the Death and controversy section are horribly opinionated: "However, whether Crockett was killed during the fighting or shortly thereafter as one of six prisoners is, in the end, irrelevant. No accounts suggest that he died in any manner other than honorably, therefore the facts as to how and when matter little, short of attempts to be as historically accurate as possible."

The whole point of wikipedia is to present the facts, or closest we can get to them, and to avoid opinion. It seems to me that these two phrases should be removed. Any thoughts? --Trails (talk) 22:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed - I've removed the text and some other commentary as well. Some other sources would not hurt here. Kuru ^talk 23:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

There is a paragraph "However, critics now tend..." which is highly dubious. It states critics would be discounting the idea of Crockett not dying in battle based on three key points. The third reported key point ("...highly dubious...Mexican soldiers...ripped and torn...blood-lust that battle generates...friends killed...explicit orders [to take no prisoners]...slightest intention to spare the lives...") is unscientific to such an epic amount that I only can hope not one critic is basing his opinion on such. This casts also doubt on the basic statement of the paragraph and it casts doubt on the refutation of the idea that David Crocket was captured and killed afterwards -- Tomdo08 (talk) 16:33, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Hell & Texas quote discrepancy

In the section Political career the article says

In 1835, he suffered yet another defeat. He said, "I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." Following his defeat, he did just that.

In Legacies it says

It is also said that upon going to Texas, his fellow congressmen urged him to stay. In response Crockett quickly answered them:“ You may go to hell, I will go to Texas. ”

These two statements are not quite in agreement, but I'm not sure which is correct, can someone clarify this point?

Lessthanideal (talk) 21:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

What in the world are Texians? Are they related to Texans in some way? Shouldn't this be explained in the article somewhere? RyokoMocha (talk) 23:43, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I've linked the first instance of the word to it's article here at Texian. Kuru ^talk 00:06, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Texian is a word generally applied to people living in Tejas (Texas) during the time it was being officially and legally colonized, principally by immigrants from the United States and Ireland. This period runs from the latest Spanish Colonial years until it gradually fell out of use when Texas joined the United States in 1846. Then the word "Texan", derived from the Spanish "tejano" supplanted the older identifier, Texian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by privatouring66.68.242.171 (talk) 03:07, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

birthplace

Are there actual sources for his birthplace being Washington County, North Carolina or Hawkins County, Tennessee, or just the rootsweb link? I've never considered rootsweb terribly reliable. In a Narrative of the Life of David Crockett (pp. 15-17), Crockett says he was born "at the mouth of Lime Stone, on the Nola-chucky river." John Crockett's name appears in a Washington County, Tennessee court record as early as 1778, and appears in Greene County, Tennessee (where Limestone Creek joins the Nolichucky) records throughout the 1780s (Smith, Historical Background and Archaeological Testing of the Davy Crockett Birthplace State Historic Area, p. 13). The rootsweb source isn't listing their source (or they're citing another family tree database). Bms4880 (talk) 22:07, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Washington County, Tennessee was founded in 1777 as Washington County, North Carolina; at the time, all of what is now Tennessee was part of North Carolina. After Tennessee became a state in 1796, and the county became Washington County, Tennessee, the modern Washington County, North Carolina was formed in 1799. The link to the modern NC county is wrong, as contemporaneous records of his birth in Washington County are referring to what is now Tennessee.

Greene County (then NC, now TN) formed in 1783 (out of what had been part of Washington County) and Crockett was born in 1786, during the State of Franklin era. IIRC the Greene/Washington county line runs through the Crockett farm where Big Limestone Creek joins the Nolichucky River (what is now Davy Crockett Birthplace State Park) which is why both counties lay claim to being his birthplace. Hawkins County has also tried to lay claim to Crockett, but with no proof that I can recall -- Foetusized (talk) 00:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I understand that some movement of state and county lines took place around the time of his birth, and it may be confusing at first glance. But based upon Crockett's account of his birth having taken place at the mouth of what is now known as Big Limestone Creek, I don't believe there can be any confusion about his birthplace location.

Using the current TN county property records to verify the Greene-Washington county line, you can see it leaving the north bank of the Nolichucky river about 0.75 mile upstream of Big Limestone Creek. The line continues north for about 0.5 mile and then swings west to cross Big Limestone at the Davy Crockett Park Rd bridge. That point on the creek is more than 0.5 mile upstream from the confluence. The county line follows the creek for a few hundred yards north before crossing east again and leaving the creek in Greene. There's an effective 120 acre buffer zone of the Carter, Lee, and Harber land to the north and on the other side of the creek. You can see all that by zooming out on the satellite view of this TN state assessor's map. The white line is the county line:

http://tnmap.state.tn.us/assessment/map.aspx?GISLink=030078++++01101

So, with the entire area of Davy Crockett State Park and both banks of the lower Big Limestone squarely within Greene county, there's no doubt that Crockett was born in what is now Greene county. Washington county is near, but not there. Hawkins county had direct connections but only with his grandparents, and the Hamblen county tavern came after he was born. thyrd (talk) 08:26, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be some confusion whether Crockett was born in Limestone or Greene County. Both are true, but because the center of the community of Limestone is in Washington county, it's somewhat misleading to not mention Greene County. I've edited the article to reflect that and believe it's the most accurate way of describing it and pointing to it on a map.Thyrd (talk) 12:41, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Horseshoe Bend

I deleted the reference to Crockett serving at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend. He was not there, according to his autobiography and according to the muster rolls. Tom Reedy (talk) 04:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Life of Martin Van Buren

While not particularly well known, Crockett wrote a rather scurrilous book about President Martin Van Buren in 1845 (available through Google books) where he (amongst other things) describes Van Buren as dressing in "corsets such as women in town wear". Shouldn't this be included in the description of his political life? Writing books is normally a notable accomplishment. 96.250.216.18 (talk) 14:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

He didn't write it; Augustin Smith Clayton is the probable author. Tom Reedy (talk) 18:30, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

David Crockett was most likely not the author of either the Van Buren bio or his own "autobiography". James Shackford "David Crockett: The Man and the Legend" 1956, compares Crockett's own letters with the texts of "his books". Although the likely author of the "Autobiography", Thomas Chilton, employed at times a frontier semi-literate style, his spelling, punctuation, and syntax is much more educated than Crockett's. The words that Chilton misspelled do not correlate to the words mispelled by Crockett. David Crockett was a great author of oral tall tales and bragged about how it improved his political popularity. He also was a likely source of material for three popular authors during the second half of the nineteenth century, Artemus Ward, Bret Harte, and Mark Twain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bellinghamster (talk • contribs) 03:39, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Article rewrite

This article is biased, redundant in parts, poorly sourced (and the sources are outdated), and poorly written. An article this important to Texas history and American folklore should be improved to feature status, and I plan to rework the entire article over the next six months or so to try to achieve that. I plan to start at the top and work my way down. If it's important to you, please pitch in. Tom Reedy (talk) 02:59, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to the editors who are keeping an eye on the vandalism; which is yet another reason to shoot for FA status so the article can be protected. I haven't been able to edit as much as I'd like because of some pressing health problems, but I hope to be able to pursue it vigorously in a short while. Tom Reedy (talk) 03:58, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Introduction sentence

The introduction includes this sentence: "His nickname, 'Davy', was the stuff of legend, but during his lifetime he referred to himself exclusively as 'David.'" He very well may have, but there are many contemporary accounts saying that he was better known as "Davy Crockett." What does "the stuff of legend" mean, anyway? At best, it's a non-specific generality, and I don't think it means much. If it's to imply that he wasn't known as "Davy," then it fails because it is untrue.

I want to delete it but I want to hear other opinions before I do. Tom Reedy (talk) 02:03, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the first name issue needs to be discussed in the opening paragraph. In the second paragraph of Davy Crockett Birthplace State Park, I mostly focused on the factual aspects of Crockett's life. The lede for Davy Crockett should probably longer than one paragraph. Bms4880 (talk) 15:32, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

That's a pretty good article. I've been laid up for some time and haven't had time to make any substantial changes to this article, although I'm hoping to devote some time next week to it. How about taking a shot at writing the lede?Tom Reedy (talk) 00:13, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I'll work on it over the next few days. Bms4880 (talk) 18:17, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I've put in a place-holder core lede based on your graf from the park article. Feel free to change radically. Tom Reedy (talk) 17:59, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

It's become painfully obvious that I won't be able to take the time to help edit this page to featured status as I had originally planned to do. I hope to see it improve, and hopefully I can come back to it at another time. Tom Reedy (talk) 22:48, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Middle and West Tennessee

Why is there no mention of Crockett's move to Middle Tennessee and then to West Tennessee, from whence he went to Texas? The implication is that he spent his entire life before going to Texas in East Tennessee, which is flatout not true. His election to Congress was from West Tennessee. At the time he was living in the Obion Bottoms near what is now Union City Tennessee. Without checking, I believe he lived in the vicinity of Lawrenceburg in Middle Tennessee prior to his move across the Tennessee River into West Tennessee after it was opened up to settlement by the Jackson Purchase. SamMcGowan (talk) 22:44, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

The Encyclopedia of World Biography, via the web site www.notablebiographies.com, has this information:

1813: Crockett moves to Franklin county in south Middle TN.
1817: He moves to Lawrence county and operates a grist mill etc. in what is now David Crockett State Park near Lawrenceburg. He was living here when he was elected to the TN state legislature in 1823.

But I have some problems with that article as a source.

It makes no mention of the fact that, at some time before 1827, when he was elected to the US Senate, Crockett was living in Rutherford, Gibson county, TN (which I believe is the place you referred to near Union City, although it's nearer to Trenton and Jackson).
It states that Crockett was born in Hawkings (sic) county in East TN. That's incorrect. Hawkins is in the wrong place and was established out of Sullivan three years after Greene formed out of Washington. I've already mentioned that under "birthplace" above.

Because of the omission and inaccuracy, I'd be reluctant to accept the website as a reliable source on its own.

I'd like to see a more comprehensive account of his domestic wanderings, but I'm unsure how it would be incorporated with the article as it stands at present. Thyrd (talk) 16:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

conflicting statements in Crocket article

The article states:"By the late 19th century, Crockett was largely forgotten. His legend was reborn in a 1950s TV show by Walt Disney." However, The notes at the end of the same article prove otherwise. In the end notes, there is a long list of Hollywood movies featuring the character Davy Crockett dating from 1909 essentially up through to "The Alamo" in 2004, proving not only that the 1950s Disney TV shows did not resurrect or rebirth interest in the Crockett legend, but that popular interest in at least the Hollywood version thrived throughout the 20th Century and into the 21st. So that statement is just unresearched, manufactured balderdash and should be removed because it's fallacy sticks out like a sore thumb.97.100.237.54 (talk) 20:46, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Crockett jilted: his contract of marriage

The penultimate paragraph under Childhood refers to Crockett's unsuccessful engagement to marry Margaret Elder and the contract of marriage.

At the time this original entry was made (2006), the document was in the possession of a private citizen whose father claimed to have recovered it from garbage thrown out by Jefferson County Court staff at Dandridge. It had recently been featured on Antiques Roadshow, where it was valued at between $25000 and $50000. Ultimately, that publicity reinforced efforts by TN state to recover the document.

After a "lengthy legal battle", the document has been returned to Tennessee under the state's Replevin Laws, which allow for all "lost & found" public documents to be returned to public control. The announcement and story of its recovery was made by the Tennessee Secretary of State in the May 2010 edition of his newsletter "The Blue Pages". It makes interesting reading, but I am not certain if or how it could be shoehorned into the existing paragraph in a way that is appropriate and worthwhile. But I have added a citation of the document to the article. thyrd (talk) 09:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Death

This article -- regarding Corckett's death -- fails to account for James Crispin's analysis of the journal and other peer-reviewed forensic studies conducted in 1998 and 2001 that have verified its authenticity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.200.245.136 (talk) 22:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Title of article

It is misleading and reinforces notions of the myths of David Crockett for the principal title of this article to be "Davy Crockett." The title of the article should be "David Crockett" with references to "Davy" being redirected there, not the other way around. As Michael Wallis makes clear in his biography, Crockett never signed his name "Davy" and there are few if any references to him by that name in his lifetime. I don't know how to change that redirection link myself. David Crockett was an interesting and important historical figure, "Davy" Crockett is largely a cartoonish myth (although the development of the myth itself is also important history).

Actually the rest of the article is very unbalanced in terms of Crockett's political life -- a large section on his involvement in Texas, for example, which was really to a large degree anomalous politically, compared to the rest of his life. I will leave that as a dangling critique for the time being.

Jonwurl (talk) 13:38, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME. He's almost universally known as "Davy" in modern times. Bms4880 (talk) 13:47, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

He's not known as "Davy" in any scholarly sense, only in popular thought. I'm not saying it should be ignored -- but "Davy" should redirect to David, not the other way around. Who he actually was, was a member of Congress of the United States. "Davy" on the other hand was a Disney-esque myth (largely), and it does a disservice to general scholarship and the venerability of the history of the United States government to title the article this way. If WikiPedia standards are otherwise, then these standards probably need to change. In a certain sense it is even in correct -- the person "universally known as Davy in modern times" was not actually a real person, just Fess Parker acting as "Davy." So by this argument there should be two articles. I am not saying there should be two articles, because the mythology definitely derived from the actual person, but it is misleading and inaccurate to reinforce this, at least if the goal is to help educate people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonwurl (talk • contribs) 19:47, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I reviewed the "Common names" standard. Calling David Crockett "Davy" is quite different than calling William Clinton "Bill." I think it is the standard that is in error here, so I guess I will need to take it up there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonwurl (talk • contribs) 19:54, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Masonic Apron

Regarding Crockett's Masonic apron, there is no Weakley Lodge in Tennessee (see http://www.grandlodge-tn.org/). There are six lodges in Weakley County, TN. It should be easy enough to contact each and verify the location of the apron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.111.18 (talk) 18:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Controversy with the Controversy Section

In the final paragraph of the controversey heading, it touches on the reports of an account of William Barrett Travis' death by a Mexican general, stating "The problem with this is: how would de la Peña have been able to distinguish Travis from any of the other defenders of the Alamo?" Well it's simple; it was a small rag tag militia. Travis wore a flashy uniform jacket as opposed to the rest who were not uniformed.

Additonally, Santa Anna or one of his generals must have given them specific descriptions of the key defenders, possibly offering some type of reward for whoever took them down. Travis surely would have been one of them. He was the commander. Oh yeah, he was also the guy that fired a canon on them 13 days prior. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frankielander (talk • contribs) 15:00, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Religion

His religion is noted in the info box as Christian, but in his Narrative and in the new bio by Wallis, there is a distinct disinterest in Christianity. In fact, when he learned his son had converted, he was clearly annoyed. I'm changing it to none.— Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrePeltier (talk • contribs) 20:00 28 May 2013

I've blanked out your infobox change. First of all, it is not necessary to state "None". Just leaving it blank means it won't appear. Secondly, at Wikipedia, you need to source. Athiesm, Agnosticism are also belief systems that would be more descriptive than "None", but you would have to source it. There's an ocean of difference between "disinterest" and "none". Disinterest is not wanting to attend services. His son converted to what? And which son was it? He had more than one. Can you state it and source it as factual? There are numerous faiths that are "Christian". What annoyed Davy about the conversion? That it was any religion at all, that it was a specific religion? Or was it the son's motivation for conversion that annoyed Davy? And can you source it? Thank you for at least noting this on the talk page. If someone can likewise provide source that Davy Crockett was born into any particular faith, practiced any particular faith, or declared atheism, then it should be sourced and defined within the body of the article. And different sources may also give widely differing views of any subject at Wikipedia. But it is not cool to delete something without sourcing. — Maile (talk) 20:34, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Van Buren

Van Buren won the Presidential election of 1836, 12 months after Crockett left for Texas. ^[1]

Also, what election results were made known in August 1834? Presidential elections are in November, with the results made official the following January. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.202.79.211 (talk) 20:21, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

You might want to review Election Day. — Maile (talk) 22:41, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Regarding Van Buren, the text is stating that Crockett was mulling leaving for Texas if Van Buren were elected, though he eventually left for other reasons before Van Buren was elected. That statement is merely pointing out that Texas was on his mind by that time. Bms4880 (talk) 14:43, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Clean up October 2013

I started a clean up on this article, and very shortly realized what a hurclean task is required make this article presentable. Davy Crockett was created September 5, 2002. This Statistics from WMF Labs says there have been over 4,000 edits since then, almost half of them by anonymous IPs. Cluebot comes in as #2 in the total number of edits. Given that, I thought it was time to verify those inline citations against the content.

Copyvio, consistency, clarity - I got as far the Ancestry and Birth section, which was largely a copy and paste from elsewhere, and not all of it correct, and somewhat convoluted in style. That section is fixed now. The automated copyvio tools at Labs aren't perfect. I ran two different copvio tools before I corrected anything, and both tools said there were no copyvio. And, yet, almost that entire section was.

In scanning through the rest of this article, I suspect that much. if not most, is copy and paste.

Footnotes, References and Bibliography need consistent formatting and verifiation. I did some standardization of style from Citation Guide: Chicago/Turabian (16th ed.) provided by Simon Frasier University Library, and perused Featured Articles over at Military History as style models.

I alphabetized the bibliography and set them all up as Harvard referencing style, but have only been able to match 5 to inline citations at this time. Please do not remove the Harvref style from the Bibliography. My javascript shows me red errors on which ones still need to be checked with inline citations. It's the least confusing way to go through it.
I have already removed the 1922 Woodburn book as the sole source of the first paragraph of "Early years and family". I'm not sure why it was placed there. This is the Woodburn reference.

NPOV, MOS Words to watch need to be checked throughout, especially given how Davy Crockett himself seems to evoke emotions one way or the other.

ISBN standardization is needed, as is checking for extra spaces, dashes, serial commas and other punctuation.

Those are just some highlights. Davy probably needs a task force of his own. But I think we're doing good to clean out the problem issues.— Maile (talk) 18:46, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Nov 2013

Crockett's opposition to, even, Federal government emergency relief. Not a matter of "rich" or "poor".

It should be mentioned in the article that David Crockett came to the opinion that all Federal government relief spending was wrong - even in emergency situations such as a fire (indeed the example is given in his speech against the payment to the widow). It was NOT as the article implies that Crockett just opposed government subsidies to the rich, he opposed them to rich and poor alike.90.218.1.233 (talk) 22:57, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

David Crockett biographer, James R. Boylston published an article in The Crockett Chronicle (November 2004, #6) debunking the above mentioned and so-called “Not Yours to Give”/Horatio Bunce story, and also addresses the speech in his new book, David Crockett in Congress: The Rise and Fall of the Poor Man's Friend. (Robertemmettbell (talk) 04:34, 14 January 2014 (UTC))

Semi-protected edit request on 24 March 2014

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The following areas should be removed/corrected:

List of Notable Freemasons While serving in the United States House of Representatives, Crockett became a Freemason. He entrusted his masonic apron to the Weakly Lodge in Tennessee before leaving for Texas, and it still survives today.[157] Crockett, Davy. "Grand Lodge of Texas". Masonic Research. Grand Lodge of Texas. Retrieved 29 July 2012.

And replaced with the below change:

In 2013, it was determined that Davy Crockett, based on information put forth from 1895 until 2013, was not a Freemason. The basis of this belief was determined to be erroneous, but his name had been passed on to many "Famous Freemasons" lists around North America without appropriate verification. (Source: When History Fails Legend Prevails: Questioning the Evidence of Claims of Masonic Affiliation of Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett, Autumn House,2013, John Bizzack Ph.D.)

Bittersweet3321 (talk) 02:19, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done for now: More than one source is preferable in instances such as this - any more evidence for this view? --Mdann52talk to me! 13:58, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2014

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Category:American folklore Category:Tennesse folklore Category:Davy Crockett 75.80.129.37 (talk) 03:54, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done

Category:American folklore - the article is in Category:Texas folklore, which is a sub-category of American folklore, so we don't duplicate with the over-category

Category:Tennesse folklore Category:Davy Crockett as you can see from the redlinks - these categories do not exist - Arjayay (talk) 07:56, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 July 2014

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Category:Davy Crockett 75.80.129.37 (talk) 00:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

I believe you are requesting that we create a category for Davy Crockett, because none exists at the moment. It's not a bad idea. I don't have time to deal with this right now today. But I'll try and get back to this. — Maile (talk) 00:40, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Not done unclear request - as explained in your previous request, above, there is no such category, so it cannot be added.
If you wish this category to be created, please request this using the category creation wizard. Arjayay (talk) 08:33, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Done I have created the category, as there are numerous articles that can be added to it. — Maile (talk) 16:36, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 November 2014

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This article says David was born in Green County, NC in one place and Green County, TN in another.

72.11.63.39 (talk) 15:30, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. This has been corrected. Greene Co, TN is correct and sourced. Davy Crockett Birthplace State Park is in Greene Co, TN. — Maile (talk) 15:47, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

But it is still wrong as of 28 January 2015. I edited this article a couple of months ago, and corrected Davy Crockett's birthplace as:

"Greene County, North Carolina" (correct but confusing)

My change was quickly undone by — Maile (talk) who replaced it with the following text:

"Greene County, Tennessee (then in the State of Franklin)" (incorrect on two counts)

The original mistake and this reversion are certainly excusable. Wikipedia's policy and guidelines in this regard are not uniformly followed. Davy Crockett's birthplace is further complicated by a contemporaneous attempt to create a separate state (not called Franklin, though), and the later appearance of another unrelated Greene County in the same State of North Carolina. I'm sure that claim by the State of Tennessee itself didn't help.

The State of Crockett's Birth

Wikipedia's policy and guidelines are quite clear and unambiguous. In summary:

"When referring to a place in a period when it held a different name, the widely accepted historical English name should be used."

Davy Crockett wasn't just older than the State of Tennessee, he was also older than the State's predecessor, the "Southwest Territories", and when he was born, the place he was born was in the State of North Carolina. And that is the "widely accepted historical English name" specified by Wikipedia's policy on Naming Conventions (geographic names).

Implementation of this guideline can be seen in other articles. For example, the article on Albert Einstein states that he was born in the Kingdom of Württemberg, because that Kingdom held legal jurisdiction over the City of Ulm in 1879. It is irrelevant that Ulm was in West Germany at the time of his death, or that it is in Germany now. The guideline is even implemented correctly just a couple of lines below the erroneous text, by stating the place of Crockett's death as:

Alamo Mission, San Antonio, Republic of Texas

Just as Crockett did not die in the State of Texas, and just as Einstein was not born in Germany or West Germany, Davy Crockett was not born in Tennessee, because Tennessee did not exist at the time of his birth in 1786. The State was created in 1796. Even the County of Tennessee wasn't created until 1788, and that did not encompass his birthplace.

The State of Franklin in relation to Crockett's Birth

The State of Franklin was an unrecognised attempt to secede from the Union. A referendum on adopting a Constitution resulted in defeat. A petition for statehood submitted to Congress in May 1785 also failed. That petition was for a State named Frankland (not Franklin). There was never any official recognition of it from any quarter. By the time of Crockett's birth, north Carolina had rescinded its April 1784 offer to cede the area. That offer would have expired in April 1786 anyway, four months before Crockett's birth. The legal jurisdiction at the State level over the place of Davy Crockett's birth was North Carolina, and that is the widely-recognized term that the Wikipedia policy mandates.

The County of Crockett's Birth

The place of Crockett's birth was first settled around 1769, becoming the Watauga Association in May 1772. The area's name was the Washington District both before and after annexation by North Carolina in November 1776. It was organized into Washington County in November 1777. A little more than five years later, Washington County was split and part of it reorganized to become Greene County. Except for the different local administration of the Southwest Territories between 1790 and 1796, that place has been in a County called Greene County since then. It is now Greene County, Tennessee. But that is not the name called for by the Wikipedia policy. At the time of Crockett's birth, the place was in Greene County, North Carolina.

I concede that simply stating his birthplace as Greene County, North Carolina is too confusing. Crockett's Greene County had transitioned all the way into the State of Tennessee on 1 June 1796. Two and a half years later, on 1 January 1799, a distant and unrelated county in North Carolina some 400 miles to the east was renamed from Glasgow County to Greene County and remains to this day. By Wikipedia policy, Crockett was bornin the Greene County, North Carolina of 1786, but that is too easily confused with the entirely different place called Greene County, North Carolina in 2015. I am holding off on correcting the article to avoid an edit war and to await comment or consensus. That will hopefully give me time to come up with a way of succinctly conveying the 1786 meaning of "Greene County, North Carolina" without ambiguity. With thanks from ChrisJBenson (talk) 22:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Chris, I have no desire to edit war, only to get this correct, either direction. I don't care - it just needs to be correct, and I have my doubts. Towards that end, I have posted a request at WP Tennessee project talk page to have someone with knowledge required to put this to rest. I'm bowing out on this here, because I just want it to be right. I'm leaving it up to the project people to weigh in. But it is worth mentioning that Davy Crockett Birthplace State Park is located in Greene County, Tennessee. You linked Greene County, North Carolina which is up next to the state of Virginia.— Maile (talk) 22:40, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

- How about Greene County, then part of North Carolina? The wikilink will bring the reader to the correct current location (TN), but the text shows NC. Karanacs (talk) 14:32, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

- - Thank you — Maile (talk) and thank you (Karanacs (talk) for the excellent suggestions of requesting comment at the WikiProject on Tennessee and specifying "then" for the county's temporal relationship to North Carolina. I have moved my follow-up comment into a new section because the current section title is now inaccurate. ChrisJBenson (talk) 03:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Crockett's birth place should be North Carolina (because it was at the time)

I am not disputing that Davy Crockett's birthplace is NOW in the State of Tennessee, and that Davy Crockett Birthplace State Park is administered by the State of Tennessee. But I believe Wikipedia guidelines advise that we should name the state that his birthplace was in at the time, and Tennessee didn't exist at the time of Crockett's birth in 1786.

The Wikipedia naming convention for place names appearing in articles is described by the WP:NCPLACE guidelines. Note that guidelines constitute advice rather than a strictly enforced policy. Here's the third paragraph in the WP:NCPLACE#Use_English section of those guidelines:

If the place does not exist any more, or the article deals only with a place in a period when it held a different name, the widely accepted historical English name should be used. If there is no such name in English, use the historical name that is now used locally - for more, see Use modern names, below.

And here is the relevant part of the guideline section which (confusingly for us here) is entitled: Use modern names:

For an article about a place whose name has changed over time, context is important. For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name), rather than an older one. Older names should be used in appropriate historical contexts.

On August 17, 1786, there was no State of Tennessee or Southwest Territory yet. Frankland/Franklin's May 1785 bid for statehood had failed, amd although it did continue in an unofficial unrecognized "extra-legal" capacity, this was in parallel with North Carolina. However unpopular locally, the official government in that place at that time was North Carolina. By legal status and by longevity, North Carolina is certainly a more widely accepted name than the State of Franklin. So by application of Wikipedia's geographical naming convention for a historical context (as shown above), I believe that the article section about his early life should indicate something like:

Davy Crockett was born near the community of Limestone in Greene County in the Washington District of North Carolina. That area later formed part of the Southwest Territory which eventually became the State of Tennessee.

The article currently states that the area is now in Tennessee but doesn't mention North Carolina at all. The Infobox should be brief, so for that I like the suggestion by Karanacs (talk) that we use:

"[[Limestone]], [[Greene County, Tennessee|Greene County]], then part of North Carolina"

in the Infobox, which will appear as:

Limestone, Greene County,

then part of North Carolina

With thanks from ChrisJBenson (talk) 03:24, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Maile, if you're okay with that, I can go ahead and make the change. Karanacs (talk) 22:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

ChrisJBenson and Karanacs - Go for it! I'm good with this, thanks to both of you. — Maile (talk) 22:59, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Done! Karanacs (talk) 23:06, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. ChrisJBenson (talk) 11:26, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Request for an addition to 6.1 of contents (Namesakes)

I would request that David Crockett High School be added to the list of namesakes. Znbsmith (talk) 07:35, 9 March 2015 (UTC)Znbsmith

Done. Someone may need to prune the school's notable alumni list. Bms4880 (talk) 13:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I agree with you there. Znbsmith (talk) 15:46, 11 March 2015 (UTC)Znbsmith

About This Article

Hello, Im new to Wikipedia and I was wondering where to find the biblographys? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachattack2015 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Under the section that says "Further reading", where you see Bibliography of works on Davy Crockett, that's a link to them. Just click on it. — Maile (talk) 19:18, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 July 2015 (Crockett's name)

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Please Prove forensically that David Crockett had a middle name, and that this speculation is not just revisionist history just to sell books. Names commonly back then were all spelled out, like Polly Finely Crockett. John Wesley Crockett. David never ever signed his name with Stern! Show the birth records, or please remove the 'speculation and what if' revisionist history.

108.219.19.16 (talk) 20:04, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Done Removed. Thank you so much for catching this. This was an unsourced edit from December 2014 that no one else noticed. For any other editors, please discuss here if there are any disagreements about Crockett's name. — Maile (talk) 20:20, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Spelling of Davy

Hello, in the plaque in the Alamo the name is spelled DAVEY FYI KMDAVEY (talk) 20:21, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

The historical/bronze plaques I know of there use David. Which one are you referring to? Kuru (talk) 20:33, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 July 2015 (Crockett's name)

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Please Prove forensically that David Crockett had a middle name, and that this speculation is not just revisionist history just to sell books. Names commonly back then were all spelled out, like Polly Finely Crockett. John Wesley Crockett. David never ever signed his name with Stern! Show the birth records, or please remove the 'speculation and what if' revisionist history.

108.219.19.16 (talk) 20:04, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Done Removed. Thank you so much for catching this. This was an unsourced edit from December 2014 that no one else noticed. For any other editors, please discuss here if there are any disagreements about Crockett's name. — Maile (talk) 20:20, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Spelling of Davy

Hello, in the plaque in the Alamo the name is spelled DAVEY FYI KMDAVEY (talk) 20:21, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

The historical/bronze plaques I know of there use David. Which one are you referring to? Kuru (talk) 20:33, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 May 2016

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Category:American explorers 76.88.107.122 (talk) 22:14, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Done — Music1201 ^talk 01:04, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

New music edit needed

They Might Be Giants released a song called, "The Ballad of Davy Crockett (in Outer Space)". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pentron01 (talk • contribs) 03:11, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2016

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Category:Appalachian people 76.88.107.122 (talk) 03:37, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Done--JayJasper (talk) 03:44, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

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Tennessee River?

No, Crockett's businesses weren't destroyed because of a Tennessee River flood. Lawrenceburg is nowhere where the Tennessee River, which divides Tennessee well west of there then flows into Alabama before combing back into East Tennessee. Lawrenceburg is located on what is now called Shoal Creek and it was that creek that flooded and wiped out his business. ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.54.199.8 (talk) 20:37, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2018

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Crockett Middle School, Amarillo Texas 108.240.227.231 (talk) 06:01, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Added to Namesakes list. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 14:27, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2018

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Currently, the Wikipedia page notes: "While serving in the United States House of Representatives, Crockett became a Freemason. He entrusted his masonic apron to the Weakly Lodge in Tennessee before leaving for Texas, and it still survives today.[169] The citation give is: Crockett, Davy. "Grand Lodge of Texas". Masonic Research. Grand Lodge of Texas. Archived from the original on 12 May 2012. Retrieved 29 July 2012

The citation is correct, however, the information on which the citation is based has been proven incorrect. The information on which the assertion that Crockett was a Freemasonry was based on erroneous reporting in 1897 which was later passed on through an article in 1936 and again in 1986 in the Texas Freemason Magazine. The evidence that proves the reporting was mistaken appears in When History Fails Legends Prevail: Questioning the Masonic Affiliation of Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett, John Bizzack, PhD., Autumn House Publishing, 2013, ISBN-13: 978-1484121764. The real Masonic apron alleged to have belonged to Davy Crockett was never on display or seen. Only a drawing of the apron claimed to be Crockett's was ever produced. It was determined the apron in question likely belonged to John Wesley Crockett, Davy Crockett's son who was a member of Trenton Lodge N0 86, in Trenton, Gibson County, Tennessee. Bittersweet3321 (talk) 03:34, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Is that the right publisher? Every reference to this work seems to indicate "CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform," making this a self-published work. Is there other published material you can source that might meet our criteria for WP:RS? Kuru (talk) 03:57, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps the editor is referring to: Bizzack, John (2015). How & Why Freemasonry Came to Kentucky: The Backstory. Lexington, Kentucky: Autumn House Publishing & Consulting Group. ISBN 9781514187494. Spintendo 12:09, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

The correct source, and the authenticity of that apron, depends on how far back you search. The earliest I have been able to find, dates to 1896. Word-for-word, this is what appeared in numerous publications at about the same time. "About People and Things". The Indianapolis Journal. September 30, 1896. p. 4, col. 6. David Crockett's Masonic apron is now in the possession of Mr. E. M. Taylor, of Paducah, Ky. It is in excellent condition and treasured highly. It was given to Mr. Taylor by a descendant of a friend, one of the old-time settlers, and an associate of Crockett. This is what the source in the article says: made for him by Mrs. A.C. Massie of Washington, D.C., during his tenure in Congress. Before leaving for Texas, he entrusted the apron to the sheriff of Weakley County, Tennessee, and it was inherited and preserved by the sheriff's nephew, E.M. Taylor of Paducah, Kentucky. The lodge at Weakley County, near the Crockett home, burned during the Civil War destroying all the lodge records. From The Texas Mason By Pete Normand, PM Texas Lodge of Research "David Crockett - "King of the Wilderness" | The Grand Lodge of Texas A.F. & A.M." The Grand Lodge of Texas Ancient Free and Accepted Masons. 12 May 2012. — Maile (talk) 15:40, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. As the sources produced above demonstrate, there is reason to accept the original claims while the editor who posted this has not produced verifiable sources nor clarified their request. Further discussion on sourcing of the masonic apron should probably take the form of an WP:RFC, not a simple edit request. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:42, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Odd addition

@Davidgoodheart: I'm not clear on how this category connects? Kuru (talk) 01:12, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kuru: After he was killed his body was never found, doesn't that classify him as missing? Davidgoodheart (talk) 18:06, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

@Davidgoodheart: It was the New Mexico part that was throwing me. Kuru (talk) 18:45, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

@Kuru: Oh, that's right, as the Alamo is in Texas, not New Mexico, I had confused him with Billy the Kid, who was from New Mexico. Davidgoodheart (talk) 19:20, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

David Crockett was portrayed by Thomas Partain in the film TOO MANY CROCKETTS 2015.Gh1836 (talk) 01:30, 11 October 2018 (UTC)<imdb>

Semi-protected edit request on 3 July 2019

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Change Born David Crockett August 17, 1786 Limestone, Greene County, North Carolina, U.S To Born David Crockett August 17, 1786 Limestone, Greene County, Tennessee, U.S 65.206.3.196 (talk) 20:48, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Done Thank you for mentioning this. — Maile (talk) 21:04, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 July 2019

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Change Davy Crocket's name to Davy "The Man" Crocket 71.105.119.28 (talk) 21:29, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 22:20, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2020

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The following needs to be changed:

In early 1836, he took part in the Texas Revolution and was "likely" executed at the Battle of the Alamo after being captured by (and possibly surrendering to) the Mexican Army.

It needs to be change too:

In early 1836, he took part in the Texas Revolution and fought to his death at the Battle of the Alamo never surrendering to the Mexican Army. Americanjustice247 (talk) 06:35, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:30, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Somewhat confused by the "likely" quotation marks. That is not a valid use, and they should be removed. 192.252.229.69 (talk) 03:26, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Pop Culture Edit

Crockett was a secret character in the video game Romance of the Three Kingdoms VIII — Preceding unsigned comment added by XGhost4000x (talk • contribs) 20:40, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2021

This article, an excerpt taken from Wild West magazine, suggests that the Pena diary is both A) much more controversial than the wiki article suggests, and B) that Crockett's death is much more controversial than the article suggests, with the preponderance of evidence actually suggesting otherwise (as far as eyewitness accounts, go). The article is from 2015, well after the 2001 date of the article supporting Pena (which only supported the age of the materials and did not authenticate the handwriting...and which made it no different from the many other accounts given around that time, even if not a fake).

https://www.historynet.com/davys-death-at-the-alamo-is-now-a-case-closed-or-not.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.184.38.211 (talk) 13:41, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

David Crockett (wrestling)

Hi, can we please add the following hatnote, since David Crockett redirects here?

 {{redirect|David Crockett|the professional wrestling announcer|David Crockett (wrestling)}}

Thank you! 162.208.168.92 (talk) 16:19, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

The general disambiguation page linked at the top of the article includes that person (I did move his name into the "people" section to make it more clear). I don't think there's any need to have a bunch of specific links re-creating the general disambiguation page. Kuru (talk) 03:36, 7 March 2021 (UTC)]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2021

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Davy Crockett is a character in Gore Vidal’s novel Burr, as a congressman from Tennessee. This mention should be added to the In Popular Culture/Prose Fiction section. (Also, I believe that “fiction” in “Prose fiction” should be capitalized.) Czardmitri (talk) 07:40, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:10, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Fame

This article is very informative on Davy Crockett's military and political career, but aside from one sentence in the opening, there's no explanation of how he became a folk hero. I think there should be a section added explaining how he became so famous during his lifetime. 113.161.91.251 (talk) 10:39, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2022

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In the ref following "claiming Crockett fought to the death", please add: archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200516010616/https://stmuhistorymedia.org/the-mysterious-death-of-david-crockett/ |archive-date=16 May 2020 |url-status=dead. Also change last1=Hilley to last1=Gilley. 2001:BB6:4734:5658:D894:AFC7:BAA4:3CAE (talk) 19:31, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Done Jiltedsquirrel (talk) 02:13, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Changes to "In Pop Culture" page

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Davy Crockett has also been referenced in a game called Team Fortress 2, according to their wiki page about the storyline of the game

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Storyline FanaticInterlude (talk) 13:22, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Not done for now: There is no appropriate subsection for this addition, and it is not notable enough to warrant the creation of a separate subsection, in my opinion. Actualcpscm (talk) 14:08, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Congress

I assume people can't edit this because its about a well known historical person. More information about his Congressional service would be nice. I looked him up in Dr. Keith Poole's common-space NOMINATE scores where he's listed initially as a Jacksonian and later as an anti-Jacksonian, and scores at 1st Dimension (economic) 0.064, making him moderate-conservative economically. As well as .784 in the second dimension, which means he was pretty strongly aligned with the South regionally, which could represent pro-bimetallism or pro-slavery views.

In a modern-context, the 2nd dimension has largely broken down, so we typically only look at the 1st dimension for current members, but in Crockett's era, the 2nd dimension was a very important voting alignment. My guess is that Crockett's shift from Jacksonian to anti-Jacksonian reflects his opposition to the Indian Removal Act and Jackson's genocidal policies towards Native Americans.

Links to consider. http://voteview.com/rank_orders_all_congresses.htm http://voteview.com/HOUSE_SORT20.HTM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOMINATE_%28scaling_method%29

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.126.140.23 (talk) 18:52, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Tennessee General Assembly

Why does it not say he was in the Tennessee General Assembly on the right bar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nat3679 (talk • contribs) 13:37, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Should he be allowed as an Articulate answer in the UK?

I was not aware of this fine gentleman as I was not educated in America so I was at a distinct disadvantage. 2A04:4A43:481F:E53E:50EB:B2AF:5514:2BD (talk) 09:02, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Disputed Huguenot Ancestry

Research by genealogists using DNA evidence has led to a dispute of the French Huguenot ancestry of Davy Crockett and his forebears. Additionally, no definitive documentation of any ancestry preceding Davy's grandfather (David "the Elder" Crockett) seems to exist. There does not even seem to be any proof that the reputed ancestor Antoine de Crocketagne ever existed ... researchers have been unable to locate documentation of the Crocketagne family in France. The information and discussions of this subject are mostly on genealogy sites. The following links should be considered as reference:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Davy_Crockett%27s_fake_French_ancestors

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/crockett/about/results

https://www.geni.com/discussions/145261 Tunesmith82 (talk) 23:58, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Van_Buren

[1] ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Van_Buren

[1]

Talk:Davy Crockett/Archive 1

Manifest Destiny

Buried at Alamo

Something's missing...

folk hero my foot

Cattle Drive

Accuracy dispute

Removing Ancient ACCURACY template

Applying CLEAN Template 27 Apr 06

Need a source

Removing material

Picture

West Point

Crocket's Funeral conflict

French ancestry

This alleged "Crockett speech" should be removed...

Dickinson and Joe as eyewitnesses of the battle

David De Crocketagne

Davy Crockett's father

Ugh

Davy Crockett's 5 year old descendant kills a bear

He was a congressman

Editing and Contributing

Page move

Death and controversy section

Hell & Texas quote discrepancy

birthplace

Horseshoe Bend

Life of Martin Van Buren

Article rewrite

Introduction sentence

Middle and West Tennessee

conflicting statements in Crocket article

Crockett jilted: his contract of marriage

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Religion

Van Buren

Clean up October 2013

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Crockett's birth place should be North Carolina (because it was at the time)

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About This Article

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Spelling of Davy

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Spelling of Davy

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Tennessee River?

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Pop Culture Edit

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David Crockett (wrestling)

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