Talk:Alimuddin Zumla/Archive 1

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Message from Dr. Zumla's brother?

An editor who I believe to be the subject's brother left the following note at Indians in Zambia:

Zambian born Professor Alimuddin Zumla is the leading authority on Tuberculosis in the World.Currently heads the Centre of Infectious Diseases at University College Hospital,London.He also set up the TB?HIV Centre at UCH in Lusaka.He has received numerous awards and citations in his field of work.He is currently heading the World Health Organization's 15 year TB Streategy.Has written numerous books in his field of Medicine.His parents came to Zambia in the 40's from the Bharuch District of Gujarat in India.He comes from one of the most educated families amongst the Indian Community of Africa.

If we can confirm more details about his family background from reliable sources (e.g. that they came from Gujarat, what professions they engage in, etc.) this would be nice to include in the article. I've left it on the talk page for now as I couldn't find anything besides Facebook postings and the like [1]. Cheers, cab (call) 06:49, 16 April 2011 (UTC) Professor Zumla's origins can be found at http://www.mahek.co.uk/gwg/pdfs/BharuchiVahoraPatelEnglish.pdf (pg 96). His parent's place of birth is cited as Halderva,a village in Gujarat,India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoomie786 (talk • contribs) 13:11, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

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Advice

Hello @Deb:. Please may you kindly review the edits by @Melcous:. These include removal of legitimate awards from the information box list e.g Spinoza Leerstoel Award (which was properly referenced). And changing the perfectly true and referenced: In 2020, for the third year running, Sir Alimuddin was recognized by Clarivate Analytics, Web of Science as one of the world's top 1% most cited researchers.[1][2][3] to --> In 2020, Zumia was recognised by Clarivate Analytics, Web of Science as one of the world's top 1% most cited researchers.

@I JethroBT (WMF): I would also like to note that it was my interaction with @Melcous: that ultimately led to my over one year block. I also request that the Wikimedia Foundation also look into these edits. @Melcous: mixes legitimate edits with vandalism, in my view. Ear-phone (talk) 01:55, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ UCL (2018-11-30). "Professor Sir Ali Zumla cited in global list of influential researchers". Division of Infection and Immunity. Retrieved 2020-12-22.
  2. ^ UCL (2019-11-29). "Professor Sir Ali Zumla cited in 2019 global list of influential researchers". Division of Infection and Immunity. Retrieved 2020-12-22.
  3. ^ UCL (2020-11-20). "UCL academics recognised in annual global list of influential researchers". UCL News. Retrieved 2020-12-22.
Just to note that it seems disingenuous to say that it was "interaction with me" that led to your block - it was your use of multiple accounts (on this article) in violation of wikipedia's sockpuppet policy that led to the block. To explain my recent editing here, while cleaning up some WP:PEACOCK language I removed a couple of awards from the infobox because the template parameter notes that this should be those notable enough for their own wiki article - if there is a better way of choosing which ones are in the infobox and which are more fully listed in the article I'm all ears. And I cut the WP:LEAD short (deleting "third year running") because it should be a summary of the article, whereas this content is nowhere else mentioned. It would seem preferable to me to discuss improving the article with other editors (including me) here, rather than accusing me of vandalism and seeking to 'report' me to other editors. Melcous (talk) 08:12, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

@Melcous:, I've just looked at this, and although I can see that your main concern is enforcing NPOV, I can't see the reason for removing the word "Sir" from the opening sentence. The MOS makes it clear that this is optional and allowed, and it's very common, indeed quite normal, in the introductory sentence of an article. I'd request you to restore it unless you can give a better reason for removing it. Deb (talk) 09:41, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Deb, my reading was of MOS:HON and I have not seen it commonly used in the opening reference but rather more in the infobox, but I see that MOS:SIR allows it, so I have no objection not it being restored. Thanks, Melcous (talk) 11:14, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much Deb. Indeed Sir Elton John, Sir Bradley Wiggins, Sir Chris Hoy, etc. are standard and normal leads. Melcous, I have no problem with you, but if you wish to continue your 'cladestine' vandalism, it's entirely up to you. I request that you also restore the legitimate and notable awards you deleted e.g.
2013: UK Times Higher Education Award[1] . Ear-phone (talk) 12:03, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
@Ear-phone:, accusations of vandalism contravene the WP:AGF guideline, so please don't make them otherwise you could end up being the subject of a complaint. Deb (talk) 12:13, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for the advice Deb. At some point in life one has to draw the line. Why did Melcous remove "Sir", which a cursory search reveals is completely normal? It must be called what it is, vandalism. Ear-phone (talk) 12:29, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Ear-phone, the word "vandalism" has a very clear meaning here and you either do not understand it or are choosing to ignore it. Please cease doing so. I have explained myself enough. Stop ignoring WP:AGF. Melcous (talk) 13:05, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Hello Ear-phone. As I have explained to you previously, I cannot intervene with editorial disputes on Wikimedia projects in my capacity as staff at the Wikimedia Foundation. In the future, please ping me using I JethroBT if you are requesting support or have a question. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 18:11, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Hello. Thank you for your response I JethroBT. I kindly request your input. Ear-phone (talk) 18:17, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
@Ear-phone: Sure, I can provide some feedback here:
  • I have no concerns around that the claims related to Zumla around recognition by Clarivate Analytics / Web of Science are sufficiently supported.
  • At the same time, this does not necessarily means that the information must be presented in the infobox or lead section. I agree that the lead should generally provide highlights or an overview of the article rather than comprehensive information about a topic (about awards, in this case). However, if there are appropriate sources for the awards, would it be possible to incorporate them into the Awards section? What do you think about incorporating information about awards that were removed from the infobox into the prose of the Awards section?
  • I support the changes that Deb has proposed, and appreciate that Melcous acknowledged these concerns.
  • My view of Melcous's specific edits is that there were some useful edits and some edits where there was room for legitimate concern, and that it was helpful to bring these concerns up here. What I would have done in this case is to ask for clarification first to understand the basis for these changes that were not accusatory in nature, e.g. something like Hi Melcous, I was reviewing your changes to the page and wanted to ask more about these specific removals... and so forth. Eventually I expect I would have learned from them that the issue dealt with certain conventions over the infobox / lead conventions and I would have made appropriate suggestions or requests as Deb has already done. It's problematic to start a conversation like this with an open accusation of vandalism, because Melcous's edits clearly do not reflect an intent to disrupt the project, and were instead an issue of interpreting relevant guidelines. This happens all the time, and is not a cause for alarm. Framing stuations like this as vandalism makes it practically difficult to work productively together, so please be mindful and open that there are other reasons why certain edits are made.
I JethroBT drop me a line 19:38, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your input User:I JethroBT. It has helped to chart the way forward. Ear-phone (talk) 18:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
  1. ^ UCL News. Tuberculosis research project wins Times Higher Education award", 4 December 2013. Retrieved on 23 November 2014.
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